Gamers nexus 3 hour investigative video on GPUs rtx 4090 becomes rtx 4090 48gb

[AngleOff66]

I am linking to the part where they turn a 4090 24gb into a 4090 48gb.

I think I read that they got the funding for the movie that they want to do. Wonder if team green mgmnt is even aware or cares? 

And finally, if a shop like this can add that vram to a 4090, why do we have to pay such premiums?(Sarcasm) 

Edited Sunday at 11:07 PM by AngleOff66

[kksnowbear]

They don't "magically" turn a 24G 4090 into a 48G 4090.  It says so in the video.  At 2:38, he says "Because Nvidia doesn't make a  48G 4090, the repair shop has to source it's own PCB". (see image below)

They're not adding VRAM to a 24G 4090.   A 24G 4090 doesn't have the electrical features needed to do this, so you couldn't turn a 24G card into a 48G card no matter what. 

He states "it's a custom board, just for this."  At that point, it's no longer a 24G 4090.  They simply use the GPU and other 'donor' components from the original card. 

The electronics work necessary to do this also is not magic.  Anyone with the right tools and training can do it.  I have some of this equipment and military training, and I regularly work with surface mount devices in my shop.  Yet I have zero interest in doing something like this, because there's no real market for it, considering the costs.

The video says a 48G card sells for $2800 US, and from that you have to subtract the cost of the donor card plus additional components (including the custom PCB), as well as labor and the tools/equipment they're using (and that equipment isn't cheap, I can promise you).  Even if it's worth it to the shop in the video, it's only because part of that is earned back/financed by their other operations.  Not worth it otherwise, simply because there's no sustainable market for a 4090 that costs $2800 just because it's got 48G - especially considering that 'standard' 24G 4090s are selling for record high prices right now anyway.  (To be clear, I've sold 4090s recently, but unlike the b@stards who 'scalp'...I sold units at/near MSRP).

Nvidia doesn't care because it's not even remotely a credible threat to any concern of theirs.  The costs involved don't balance against the market.

Edited yesterday at 05:31 PM by kksnowbear

[Aapje]

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They don't "magically" turn a 24G 4090 into a 48G 4090. [...] The electronics work necessary to do this also is not magic. 

I don't really understand what your objection is to what @AngleOff66 said, since you seem to be agreeing with him or her that it is not that complicated (for Chinese experts) to create a new PCB for a 48 GB card. I assume that everyone understands that you can't just turn a 24 GB card into a 48 GB version by watering it regularly and giving it some fertilizer. Of course, some extra memory modules need to be added and you need a PCB that can connect those to the GPU chip.

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Yet I have zero interest in doing something like this, because there's no real market for it, considering the costs.

This seems to be missing the point, since @AngleOff66 is not arguing that someone should set up a conversion factory, but that the ability to turn a 4090 24 GB into a 48 GB version, proves that Nvidia could manufacture those or let AIBs make them.

Now, the video is not actually needed to prove this for those in the know, since Nvidia has already been selling pro cards with the same chip as the 4090, with 48 GB. So of course they could also sell a 4090 with 48 GB as part of the consumer line.

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Not worth it otherwise, simply because there's no sustainable market for a 4090 that costs $2800 just because it's got 48G - especially considering that 'standard' 24G 4090s are selling for record high prices right now anyway. 

First of all, this comment is directly countered by the video, where Chinese vendors consider it a sufficiently sustainable market to develop a custom PCB for and offer it as a product. There is also enough of a market for them to show up on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/376271640799

Secondly, you are ignoring market segmentation, monopoly practices and market manipulation. So it's not necessarily the case that there is no market for a 48 GB 4090, but rather, that Nvidia doesn't want to offer people this option, but instead wants them to buy the pro cards for double the price or more.

Nvidia segments their lineup by memory and is known to retaliate against vendors and AIBs that don't do what Nvidia wants. So from the perspective of a US/EU company, it is probably more sensible to buy a pro card with 48 GB, like the RTX 5880 or 6000, than a modified card that may result in Nvidia putting the company on a support and sales blacklist. However, this is not a free choice based purely on the merits of the product, but a choice driven by market manipulation. You can't simply conclude that these companies would make the same choices if Nvidia would allow AIBs to make 4090's with 48 GB, and if Nvidia would properly support those products with drivers and...support.

The math for Chinese companies can easily be different, due to them (as a country) being on a sales blacklist already anyway, they may benefit less from Nvidia support due to language issues and thus may need to be more self-sufficient due to it, their shenanigans may be more opaque to Nvidia by being much more isolated from Nvidia in various ways (for example, a large Silicon Valley company is likely to have workers move to or come from Nvidia, so their internal secrets may become known to Nvidia that way), they may feel protected by the Chinese government, etc, etc.

Thirdly, you ignore that the BIOS/drivers probably don't work well for gaming on these modified cards, so that means that they are only viable for AI/business use. Of course, Nvidia could easily release a 48 GB card with proper BIOS/driver support. Surely interest by gamers would increase a lot if such a card would actually work for gaming.

Ultimately, the only way to truly prove or disprove the viability of such a product, is for Nvidia to allow such a product to exist, which they don't. You can't just draw conclusions based on a manipulated market. For example, when the Iron Curtain was up, Eastern European countries claimed that their people were very happy with the Trabant/Yugo/etc, but once customers were allowed a free choice, they showed that the sales on the manipulated market didn't actually match their real preferences.

Edited 7 hours ago by Aapje

[kksnowbear]

First of all I didn't comment so that you can approve or understand.  It doesn't matter whether you approve or understand, the reality is what it is.  As usual, you're arguing with me just to be arguing with me.

The title of the post states very plainly that a "rtx 4090 becomes rtx 4090 48gb".  This is not accurate.  By the time that shop produces a 48G 4090, it has little to do with the card they started with.  With appropriate mods, labor and materials, I can swap the wheels off a Countach to a freaking Toyota Yaris...doesn't make it a Lamborghini

And I'll say it again:  A 24G 4090 cannot "become" a 48G unit, the substrate assemblies are not the same, period.  Physically not possible, end of discussion.

Cannibalizing a few parts off a beer truck won't give a honeywagon "the ability to turn in to" something that carries beverages (at least nothing that most people would drink).

In reality, this 'news' is relevant to neither a gaming discussion forum nor a "tech media" website that purports to be about gamers.  Although many places could potentially do the physical work, there are reasons that myself and others similarly situated aren't already doing it.

A listing on eBay for a piece of modified hardware which is unsupported (and which actually violates their policies, at that)...doesn't change anything. 

Edited 1 hour ago by kksnowbear