MiG-29S guidance SNP-2

[MA_VMF]

The MiG-29 has a SNP-2 (TWS) mode for firing at 2 targets. However, the radar captures the target at STT. Which shouldn 't be the case . Since such a guidance principle is not possible for the R-77

[AeriaGloria]

It is possible. I’ve seen small sections of manuals for planes that use R-77, and it works with STT, even if the radar is only receiving the position of the enemy and sending the datalink signal to R-77. It is how J-11A fires it. 

[MA_VMF]

8 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

It is possible. I’ve seen small sections of manuals for planes that use R-77, and it works with STT, even if the radar is only receiving the position of the enemy and sending the datalink signal to R-77. It is how J-11A fires it. 

The R-77 does not operate in STT mode when firing at 2 or more targets.Only TWS

Edited August 27 by MA_VMF

[AeriaGloria]

14 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

The R-77 does not operate in STT mode when firing at 2 or more targets.Only TWS

Then what is your question? You say something about fire or guide in SNP 2 is wrong but you also mention radar is in STT?

Edited August 28 by AeriaGloria

[MA_VMF]

7 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Then what is your question? You say something about fire or guide in SNP 2 is wrong but you also mention radar is in STT?

The fact is that in the game, when attacking two targets, the radar continues to guide them in STT mode and warns them about launching at the enemy until the missile head is activated. This should not be the case. The R-77 cannot be conducted in STT, only in TWS

[draconus]

[AeriaGloria]

10 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

The fact is that in the game, when attacking two targets, the radar continues to guide them in STT mode and warns them about launching at the enemy until the missile head is activated. This should not be the case. The R-77 cannot be conducted in STT, only in TWS

Yes it can be used in STT mode. Think of it as missile not working like SAHR/fox 1, but the radar using STT to send out datalink

 Do you have some source saying it can’t be used STT? AMRAAM can

[MA_VMF]

11 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Yes it can be used in STT mode. Think of it as missile not working like SAHR/fox 1, but the radar using STT to send out datalink

 Do you have some source saying it can’t be used STT? AMRAAM can

The R-77 cannot be used in STT, it is not possible.Especially for two targets.The radar is not capable of maintaining STT on two targets at once, it is not a PESA

20 часов назад, draconus сказал:

Nonsense

[draconus]

35 minutes ago, MA_VMF said:

The R-77 cannot be used in STT, it is not possible.Especially for two targets.The radar is not capable of maintaining STT on two targets at once, it is not a PESA

Are you sure that it's STT mode specifically on 2 targets? MP test? Track?

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

The R-77 cannot be used in STT, it is not possible.Especially for two targets.The radar is not capable of maintaining STT on two targets at once, it is not a PESA

Nonsense

Okay but then is your problem with TJ radar or the R-77? Where have you read or seen that R-77 cannot be used STT? 

[MA_VMF]

1 час назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Okay but then is your problem with TJ radar or the R-77? Where have you read or seen that R-77 cannot be used STT? 

rather, the problem is in the radar of the aircraft. In the AA rocket design book and in the operating manual

[AeriaGloria]

35 minutes ago, MA_VMF said:

rather, the problem is in the radar of the aircraft. In the AA rocket design book and in the operating manual

Rocket design book? Operating manual of what? 
 

All I know is R-77 definitely can work off STT. That’s how it was fired from J-11A, Su-30MKK, Su-30MK2

[MA_VMF]

22 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Rocket design book?

yep

 

22 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Operating manual of what? 

aircraft

 

22 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

All I know is R-77 definitely can work off STT. That’s how it was fired from J-11A, Su-30MKK, Su-30MK2

proof

[AeriaGloria]

17 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

yep

 

aircraft

 

proof

Well you don’t have proof R-77 can’t be fired from STT 

The J-11A radar only has a STT mode. That’s all it can use to fire. The N-001 was not capable of TWS. And it is what ED and Deka corroborate. 
 

Su-30MKK/MK2 N-001V/N-001VE can be capable of TWS firing of missiles as a customer option. But it must’ve been not purchased becuase I’ve since learned it is only capable of firing them in STT. 

(Edit: no longer needed). 

If you ever want to share your sources or the relevant parts such as the R-77 rocket design manual you mention, I’ll be happy to take a look at them. 

Edited August 31 by AeriaGloria

[MA_VMF]

6 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

The J-11A radar only has a STT mode.

Nonsense because the radar has a scan mode on the aisle, and the P-77 does not work in STT.,

nullIt says so here

[Dragon1-1]

There is a real problem here, in that the dual target track mode in MiG-29S provides an STT lock warning for both targets, despite being more akin to TWS. The R-77 can definitely be guided in STT, but it uses the same datalink as in other modes. It's not a true SARH mode like what the AIM-54 does when fired in STT.

A random presentation on missiles, especially if not translated by someone who knows exactly what they're doing, is not a good source, especially if the real FM states otherwise.

Edited August 30 by Dragon1-1

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

Nonsense because the radar has a scan mode on the aisle, and the P-77 does not work in STT.,

nullIt says so here

Ah it makes sense you were referencing this! I just went through the radar section, I see it mentioning RVV-AE use with TWS, that R-27 use transitions to single target track. But not necessarily excluding R-77 with STT. But I understand if I missed something. It stills blows my mind reading this that it can fire multiple R-73 onto different TWS tracks

The J-11A has a TWS mode in DCS, not real life. Not something the N-001 does, which is odd. But then again in MiG-29 9.12/13, it’s meant help fighting without datalink as it auto selects a target. I was very surprised when I found this out myself that it does not have it. But I guess different manufacturers just do things differently, maybe it was a requirement on original 9.12/9.13 N-019. 

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

There is a real problem here, in that the dual target track mode in MiG-29S provides an STT lock warning for both targets, despite being more akin to TWS. The R-77 can definitely be guided in STT, but it uses the same datalink as in other modes. It's not a true SARH mode like what the AIM-54 does when fired in STT.

A random presentation on missiles, especially if not translated by someone who knows exactly what they're doing, is not a good source, especially if the real FM states otherwise.

What he showed is a radio technical manual for the Yemeni MiG-29SMT. It’s a good read if you can find it.
 

I agree about TWS2, I’m sure it’s down to how they coded it way back then. I’m doubtful for a change, but if there a proper change to for it only emit a RWR scan indication, it would be a really nice feature to have. Maybe ED could tidy it up to pair with FF……..

 

Edited August 31 by AeriaGloria

[MA_VMF]

4 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

У J-11A есть режим TWS в DCS, а не в реальной жизни. Это не то, что N-001 делает, что странно

The N001 has a TWS mode. However, the outdated weapon control system and R-27 missiles do not allow firing at the target in the TWS.To use the R-77, the weapon control system was replaced and changes were made to the radar algorithm.

4 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

What he showed is a radio technical manual for the Yemeni MiG-29SMT. It’s a good read if you can find it.
 

I agree about TWS2, I’m sure it’s down to how they coded it way back then. I’m doubtful for a change, but if there a proper change to for it only emit a RWR scan indication, it would be a really nice feature to have. Maybe ED could tidy it up to pair with FF……..

The 9-13S uses a weapon control system from the more advanced MiG-29M. RLPK-29M, which means firing two targets in the game in STT mode is a bug, as is a single target when using R-77 missiles.

Edited August 31 by MA_VMF

[okopanja]

On 8/28/2025 at 1:38 PM, draconus said:

Thanks, I still stand by every word there. 

8 minutes ago, MA_VMF said:

The N001 has a TWS mode. However, the outdated weapon control system and R-27 missiles do not allow firing at the target in the TWS.To use the R-77, the weapon control system was replaced and changes were made to the radar algorithm.

You can fire 2xR-27(E)T or 2xR-73 in TWS2.

[MA_VMF]

1 час назад, okopanja сказал:

Thanks, I still stand by every word there. 

I'm sorry, but it's full of nonsense.This is only according to his information.Which he did not prove in any way. The P-77 cannot be launched in STT. It works according to a different algorithm in which an overview of other goals is preserved.

Edited August 31 by MA_VMF

[okopanja]

16 minutes ago, MA_VMF said:

I'm sorry, but it's full of nonsense.This is only according to his information.Which he did not prove in any way. The P-77 cannot be launched in STT. It works according to a different algorithm in which an overview of other goals is preserved.

For 9.12a to get R-77 radar upgraded is needed. This involves replacement of C100 with C101/102 (offer to Yugoslavia from 1996, sadly never accepted), which bring new modes. In addition the radar installation itself extension so it can actually guide R-77. Is this what you meant?

Edited August 31 by okopanja

[MA_VMF]

26 минут назад, okopanja сказал:

For 9.12a to get R-77 radar upgraded is needed. This involves replacement of C100 with C101/102 (offer to Yugoslavia from 1996, sadly never accepted), which bring new modes. In addition the radar installation itself extension so it can actually guide R-77. Is this what you meant?

The 9-13S uses the upgraded N019M radar, as well as parts of the new RLPK-29M from the MiG-29M. What does the 9-12A have to do with it?

Edited August 31 by MA_VMF

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, MA_VMF said:

The 9-13S uses the upgraded N019M radar, as well as parts of the new RLPK-29M from the MiG-29M. What does the 9-12A have to do with it?

The upgrade includes the replacement of computers I have mentioned. It just confirms that for R-77 radar had to be changed to add compatibility with R-77.

With this computers also came better ECM resistance. 

[Schmidtfire]

23 minutes ago, okopanja said:

The upgrade includes the replacement of computers I have mentioned. It just confirms that for R-77 radar had to be changed to add compatibility with R-77.

With this computers also came better ECM resistance. 

This video shows some of the testing with R-77 symbology clearly visible at about the 18:27 mark.
 

 

[MA_VMF]

nullIt's not even close to what's in the DCS

3 часа назад, okopanja сказал:

The upgrade includes the replacement of computers I have mentioned. It just confirms that for R-77 radar had to be changed to add compatibility with R-77.

With this computers also came better ECM resistance. 

Well, then why does he have STT guidance when the R-77 missile doesn't work like that?