Using COOP mode to maximum effect

[CrazyGman]

Often when trying to acquire and engage targets quickly near the merge with radar guided missiles I'll switch the radar to dummy (coop will already be on) and switch to IRST vertical or helmet, where I will lock the target (Assuming I've maintained visual) with the IRST. Once locked I'll switch to IRST search and press lockon to get radar lock, and get  R-27 ready to fire. Usually the R-27R will miss against well defending targers but it doesn't matter because it's allows me to now press to the merge where I'm inside R-73 seeker range.

 

 

The main things are remembering to switch radar to dummy in the heat of the moment. (Also rembering to turn it back to active) if you want to use it to search for targets after)

 

Edited Saturday at 05:24 PM by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

I also just figured out how to IFF from IRST lock in COOP!!!!!!!! 

1. Get IRST lock in COOP and radar in dummy
2. Get radar STT, either by being within 6-10 km with close combat modes or pressing lock second time in IRST search mode 
3. Switch to radar, if friendly you will see C on top of HUD 
4. You can switch back to IRST search to switch back to IRST as primary sensor, and always press lock a second time again to fire fox 1 

5. if beyond Laser range in IRST search/vertical scan or 10 km in OPT/helm, radar will go back to search mode when switching to that mode. Move radar to ILLUM to turn it off completely and use KMOD if you want 

10 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

Often when trying to acquire and engage targets quickly near the merge with radar guided missiles I'll switch the radar to dummy (coop will already be on) and switch to IRST vertical or helmet, where I will lock the target (Assuming I've maintained visual) with the IRST. Once locked I'll switch to IRST search and press lockon to get radar lock, and get  R-27 ready to fire. Usually the R-27R will miss against well defending targers but it doesn't matter because it's allows me to now press to the merge where I'm inside R-73 seeker range.

 

 

The main things are remembering to switch radar to dummy in the heat of the moment. (Also rembering to turn it back to active) if you want to use it to search for targets after)

 

 

Edited Sunday at 03:32 AM by AeriaGloria

[CrazyGman]

3 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I also just figured out how to IFF from IRST lock in COOP!!!!!!!! 

1. Get IRST lock in COOP and radar in dummy
2. Get radar STT, either by being within 6-10 km with close combat modes or pressing lock second time in IRST search mode 
3. Switch to radar, if friendly you will see C on top of HUD 
4. You can switch back to IRST search to switch back to IRST as primary sensor, and always press lock a second time again to fire fox 1 

5. if beyond Laser range in IRST search/vertical scan or 10 km in OPT/helm, radar will go back to search mode when switching to that mode. Move radar to ILLUM to turn it off completely and use KMOD if you want 

 

This will be pretty handy

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

This will be pretty handy

I need to make a correction. 
 

IRST COOP mode will not be able to lock the radar on head on targets over 1100 kmh until 10 km. 
 

COOP is only using Pursuit Radar mode in this mode, so that’s why the 1100 kmh head on limit. I guess it also uses a close combat waveform which allows the lock on at 10 km. 
 

Interestingly enough, COOP still works with SUV knob in radar mode and Head on mode selected. I hope this is intended and not just something that hasn’t been removed yet, becuase if coop was even limited In radar mode to pursuit mode and 1100 kmh head on speed, its usefulness would be much less. 

[CrazyGman]

7 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I need to make a correction. 
 

IRST COOP mode will not be able to lock the radar on head on targets over 1100 kmh until 10 km. 
 

COOP is only using Pursuit Radar mode in this mode, so that’s why the 1100 kmh head on limit. I guess it also uses a close combat waveform which allows the lock on at 10 km. 
 

Interestingly enough, COOP still works with SUV knob in radar mode and Head on mode selected. I hope this is intended and not just something that hasn’t been removed yet, becuase if coop was even limited In radar mode to pursuit mode and 1100 kmh head on speed, its usefulness would be much less. 

In my testing on head on targets going over 1100km head on I can't achieve radar lock even inside 10km with coop mode. They'll pass right by without the radar locking on in the irst search mode.

Edited Sunday at 04:46 PM by CrazyGman

[IvanK]

Just to be sure If using Coop mode the radar must be in Dummy ?

[AeriaGloria]

23 minutes ago, IvanK said:

Just to be sure If using Coop mode the radar must be in Dummy ?

Radar mode: coop forward radar in Illum 

From IRST modes: coop forward radar in dummy 

[IvanK]

Danke

 

[Кош]

23 часа назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

I need to make a correction. 
 

IRST COOP mode will not be able to lock the radar on head on targets over 1100 kmh until 10 km. 
 

COOP is only using Pursuit Radar mode in this mode, so thanullt’s why the 1100 kmh head on limit. I guess it also uses a close combat waveform which allows the lock on at 10 km. 

Interestingly enough, COOP still works with SUV knob in radar mode and Head on mode selected. I hope this is intended and not just something that hasn’t been removed yet, becuase if coop was even limited In radar mode to pursuit mode and 1100 kmh head on speed, its usefulness would be much less. 

Where did they get 1100 KPH? By manual, 2500 for HPRF 2200 for MPRF. Also, does radar work only in MPRF in COOP? As far as I understand the book, quasisearch is HPRF - at least it has same time and geometry parameters as HPRF.

Edited Monday at 09:10 AM by Кош

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, Кош said:

Where did they get 1100 KPH? By manual, 2500 for HPRF 2200 for MPRF. Also, does radar work only in MPRF in COOP? As far as I understand the book, quasisearch is HPRF - at least it has same time and geometry parameters as HPRF.

You are only seeing rear aspect minimum/maximum speed here for Pursuit mode. In that mode the minimum/maximum speed is different in front aspect. Here from Yugoslav manual. 

Many manuals also do mention that COOP uses Pursuit mode, but they don’t seem to specifically say for KVO or IRST modes.
 

In fact on of the software updates mentioned in the Russian manual mentions changing the radar mode used in IRST close combat modes and COOP from pursuit to the 10 km limited close combat waveform.
 

I’m not sure how much sense it would make to use Head on mode with IRST that is optimized for rear aspect detection.
 

It would certainly be nice if it defaulted to what was selected, but otherwise if it used Head on mode only it would mean that radar assisted IRST COOP would only work in front aspect. If it’s using MPRF and close combat waveforms in sequence or Close combat when MPRF doesn’t lock, it would certainly be nice to use Head on mode also if they didn’t lock! But with MiG-29, I can understand how the engineers prioritized MPRF for COOP mode. 
 

There is actually a sentence in the MiG-29B book for IRST search lock in COOP “radiation by which the radar is switched on for emission. In addition, the Pkvo= 1 feature is formed, by which the format of the viewing area No. 1 is selected (as in the case of instrument guidance, when 17-55 km (see Chapter 3).” 
 

I didn’t know what to think of that. It also directly says it uses MPRF (SCHP) for IRST vertical scan COOP, but doesn’t specifically say for the others. 
 

The famous RLPK-29 university PowerPoint says it operates in MPRF (SCHP) in IRST COOP, but it also says other things. 
 

I can only hope we can continue to use COOP with Head on mode in Radar mode, if it was limited to MPRF it would be very limiting against supersonic head on targets. 
 

I also find it very odd that MPRF has a 1100 kmh front aspect limit regardless of ownship speed. I honestly didn’t expect it to be implemented, and I was so surprised when I found out I made this video trying to find at what angles I could lock someone above 1100 kmh in front aspect with MPRF, as it seems to be only 1100 kmh directly at 0 degrees aspect, and the speed limit increases from 0-89 degrees front aspect.  

 

Edited Monday at 11:29 AM by AeriaGloria

[Кош]

nullYellow is quasisearch, aka what radar does in KOLS OBZ, orange is MPRF, blue is HPRF AUTO

[AeriaGloria]

8 hours ago, Кош said:

nullYellow is quasisearch, aka what radar does in KOLS OBZ, orange is MPRF, blue is HPRF AUTO

Yeah I really love that table, gives alot of unique info. Your blue is also for Lazur, interesting similarities to Quasi search pattern especially with 29B book saying “KVO is In format of instrument guidance when D = > 55 km.” 

However what Gman and I were really talking about was full on lock when you press Lock button a second time in IRST search, there it stops doing quasi search and becomes fully STT, which appears to be a combo of Pursuit/Close combat mode.  That is what we mean when it won’t lock on with head on target over 1100 kmh until 10 km. 
 

I haven’t tested if the quasi search has the same limitation 

Edited Monday at 08:34 PM by AeriaGloria

[Кош]

11 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Yeah I really love that table, gives alot of unique info. Your blue is also for Lazur, interesting similarities to Quasi search pattern especially with 29B book saying “KVO is In format of instrument guidance when D = > 55 km.” 

However what Gman and I were really talking about was full on lock when you press Lock button a second time in IRST search, there it stops doing quasi search and becomes fully STT, which appears to be a combo of Pursuit/Close combat mode.  That is what we mean when it won’t lock on with head on target over 1100 kmh until 10 km. 
 

I haven’t tested if the quasi search has the same limitation 

yes but you're pursuing a strange unrecommended usecase

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Кош said:

yes but you're pursuing a strange unrecommended usecase

What’s the recommended usecase? Locking radar on a head on IRST lock? 

For everyone that wishes to see it here is a link to my video on IRST ranges and COOP tricks including the IFF from IRST trick we discussed here, radar ranging and radar lock on of an IRST lock, and Radar COOP where IRST can pick up lost radar lock and keep guiding R-27R/ER even if they notch you! 
 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:42 AM by AeriaGloria

[Кош]

1 час назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

What’s the recommended usecase? Locking radar on a head on IRST lock? 

Yes just use radar outside of merge. It's not MiG-23 or Su-27 after all.

[AeriaGloria]

I know, I just love IRST so much
 

You Ural Optical Geofizika factory…… had to use PbSe instead of InSb so MiG-29 could be cheap 

 

It is interesting how OLS-27 is better in everyway, I wonder if it was not fully developed by Geofizika until a few years after KOLS. Twice the gimbal limit, better sensor material, identical search zones and behavior to radar, horizon stabilization. It’s interesting that Su-27 has no COOP mode it’s just always cooperating radar and IRST. No way to turn off quasi ranging, and Anytime you have IRST lock within 15 km front aspect the radar is always locked. Within 35 km for rear aspect.

 

So in some ways, MiG-29 actually allows you to use IRST in a more “silent” way with less RWR warning until you get within laser range, vs 15/35 km lock and forced radar ranging above that for Su-27. 

 

Not to mention Sukhoi got its HUD to do everything the radar HUD does, aspect arrow, target marker highlight, target speed/alt, whereas In MiG-29 we just get a single gimbal limit circle so we can just focus on killing! 

Edited Tuesday at 12:14 PM by AeriaGloria

[Pavlin_33]

On 11/4/2025 at 9:55 PM, AeriaGloria said:

So in some ways, MiG-29 actually allows you to use IRST in a more “silent” way with less RWR warning until you get within laser range, vs 15/35 km lock and forced radar ranging above that for Su-27. 

I am not 100% sure but I think in RL locking someone up is a sign that they're being engaged and no RL pilot will not react to that. Only in video games do we just brush it off and wait for the actual launch tone, before we take it seriously.

[AeriaGloria]

5 hours ago, Pavlin_33 said:

I am not 100% sure but I think in RL locking someone up is a sign that they're being engaged and no RL pilot will not react to that. Only in video games do we just brush it off and wait for the actual launch tone, before we take it seriously.

Yes exactly what I’m saying. Within 15/35 km the Su-27 will give a STT lock signal with IRST lock. You can avoid this with MiG-29, not possible with Su-27 unless you turn radar off completely and idk if it would need to warm up when turning it back on 

Edited 7 hours ago by AeriaGloria