RVV-SD - R-77 with extended range?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

RVV-SD appears to be slightly longer and heavier and added some 20 km range to basic RVV-AE. Interesting ...

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/505/

[topol-m]

Info of the development of this missile appeared several years ago, but except for the range it`s not much different than RVV-AE and like the original hasn`t been mass produced. I remember someone in this forum, that had more info about the future strategy and plans for medium/long range AAMs, mentioned that it`s highly unlikely that we see RVV-AE (R-77) or RVV-AE-PD ("povyshenoy dalnosti" - in english "increased range") produced in big quantities. He said Russia was/is developing several new generation air to air missiles that are expected to replace the current existing and will be used in the newest russian fighters - PAK-FA, Su-35/34/30. We probably should expect to see them between 2012-2015 when there will be larger number of the aircraft mentioned above in service. It is logical to equip your latest and most advanced fighters with the latest in missile technology so I look forward to seeing what these will be and how will they compare to their western counterparts.

Edited November 28, 2009 by topol-m

[zakobi]

going to be nice, having a counterpart to U.S.A. again...

Anyone have a guess on the look of the missiles?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

going to be nice, having a counterpart to U.S.A. again...

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Actually, I think that, matching the AIM-120, Russia will be on top, as the R-73 it's the king of its category right now (when talking about fully operational missiles, of course. AIM-9X can't be counted there. The Phyton series, however, are a serious competitor when talking about short-range missiles. Anyone has seen the footage of the F-16 shooting down the UAV? The missile went freakin' backwards :bounce:!)

[Pilotasso]

going to be nice, having a counterpart to U.S.A. again...

Anyone have a guess on the look of the missiles?

 

While some of the present a future russian systems still remain dangerous, Russia is nowhere near competing with the US in terms of quantity or even quality. There is no counterpart to US yet, and there should be none in the medium term.

[topol-m]

I agree about the quantity but I could argue about quality or better about performance.

[Boberro]

Even if Russia has good fighter Rus can't afford to buy it more than few. Then even worse planes defeat quality (quantity > quality here).

[topol-m]

Russia doesn`t need a great quantity. It`s not like they are going for a war with the rest of the world :D Unnecessary expenses can be avoided, thousands of modern aircraft/missiles/tanks are unneeded. At the moment the russian military industry is manufacturing and exporting far more than we have seen in the years since the USSR collapsed. We are seeing new aircraft/SAMs/ICBMs/tanks (hope the T-95 will be presented at last :) )/etc. in development or entering in service, and a reform that i believe will make the russian army more modern and effective than ever before.

Edited November 28, 2009 by topol-m

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Back to the topic gentleman. It appears we have a longer range R-77. This missile is physically longer and heavier thus longer range?

[topol-m]

Yes it is longer and heavier. But AFAIK the motor is not changed. For the longer range versions probably a ramjet engine will be used.

[Griffin]

AIM-9X can't be counted there.

 

Sorry, a bit more off-topic. To my knowledge even Finland has been receiving the 9X since 2008 and has trained people. Also JHMCS has been in use for a couple of years now.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Oh, then I'm missing something...

 

Never followed it, just thought it was still being developed, sorry. Just completely missed it.

 

Just to know, how good the AIM-9X is, compared to the R-73?

 

(Even more off-topic, we're getting some fine Pythons :D)

[topol-m]

Just to know, how good the AIM-9X is, compared to the R-73?

 

 

Now you know what effect will that kind of question have in this thread, right? :D It won`t be just a little more off topic.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Ah, got it.

 

It will end on those insane discussions that last for 20 pages and, somehow, always manage to mix F-15, F-22, Su-30 and F-5EM to the subject, right?

 

OK, I prefer to stay away from it.

[topol-m]

It will end on those insane discussions that last for 20 pages and, somehow, always manage to mix F-15, F-22, Su-30 and F-5EM to the subject, right?

 

:laugh: Exactly.

[Vekkinho]

Actually, I think that, matching the AIM-120, Russia will be on top, as the R-73 it's the king of its category right now (when talking about fully operational missiles, of course. AIM-9X can't be counted there.

 

Why can't we count AIM-9X?!

 

It's not only fully operational in USAF but many other NATO partners already have it...

[Boberro]

Why not let's discuss again about this. :D

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Why can't we count AIM-9X?!

 

It's not only fully operational in USAF but many other NATO partners already have it...

 

Vekkinho, Griffin already corrected me. Almost completely forgot about it :doh:

[topol-m]

Why not let's discuss again about this. :D

 

For abetting the other members in off topic posting (which is a criminal offence in these forums) this user will be sentenced to lifetime ban of his right to use that avatar. :D

[Alfa]

Yes it is longer and heavier. But AFAIK the motor is not changed.

 

:huh:

 

If you look at the photos of the two missiles, you can see that the part that makes the SD version longer is exactly the engine section, which in turn would account for both the increased weight and launch range wouldn't you say? :) .

 

For the longer range versions probably a ramjet engine will be used.

 

If the future of the RVV-AE design is limited by the prospect of new missile types under development, then extending the range via a simple engine enlargement would seem a lot more likely than a more radical ramjet solution.

[Pilotasso]

R-77 is to be updated, dont think there will be radical changes, if they remove latice fins in the upgrade, that alone will increase range.

 

I think the "new" R-77 main objective is to restore russia an ARH missile in its inventory rather than having a completely new missile. That might come later.

[topol-m]

:huh:

 

If you look at the photos of the two missiles, you can see that the part that makes the SD version longer is exactly the engine section, which in turn would account for both the increased weight and launch range wouldn't you say? :) .

 

 

 

If the future of the RVV-AE design is limited by the prospect of new missile types under development, then extending the range via a simple engine enlargement would seem a lot more likely than a more radical ramjet solution.

 

I`m not sure if it got a bigger version of the same engine, or a different engine, or just more fuel space. At this point all of these SD/PD/MD/M1 versions of RVV-AE are just projects. They have the possibility to enter serial production if there is an interest but will they and which ones exactly? Unknown. About the ramjet - also unknown, it`s just a possibility.

Edited November 28, 2009 by topol-m

[Alfa]

topol-m - the site Hajduk linked to is an official ressource.

 

http://eng.ktrv.ru/about_eng/

 

The designs featured there might not be in serial production at this point, but they are not just "hot air".

 

In the case of the RVV-AE you will notice the absense of a ramjet version.

[topol-m]

I`ve never said the RVV-AE has a ramjet engine. I said the longer range projects for upgrading RVV-AE may have ramjet engine - for instance the M1 version which is expected to have twice or more the range of the original RVV-AE might use one. And if they are real, i never said they are not, I`m saying they are not mass produced. And I`m also saying that it is not known which one if any will be mass produced. I don`t see how i`m contradicting any info that site offers.

[EvilBivol-1]

Unfortunately, I don't have the time just now to translate, but for those who are willing to try an online translator, here are a couple of intelligent articles on the new missiles (RVV-MD, RVV-SD, RVV-BD):

http://www.missiles.ru/PR_AAM-5-GEN_MAKS-2009.htm

http://www.missiles.ru/KTRV_contract-2009.htm

 

Essentially, both the RVV-MD (Air-to-Air Missile - Short Range) and the RVV-SD (Air-to-Air Missile - Medium Range) are evolutionary developments of the R-73E (export) and RVV-AE missiles, respectively. The RVV-SD features a heavier motor, which is at least part of what gives it a 35% greater maximum claimed range over the RVV-AE. It also uses a laser proximity fuse in place of the radar fuse of the RVV-AE.

 

The lesser known development is the RVV-BD (Air-to-Air Missile - Long Range). Little is known about it, except some indications that it will feature a more typical control surface arrangement without the lattice fins of the RVV-AE. It is already offered as a weapon for the export Su-35BM and is also intended for the PAK-FA.

Edited November 28, 2009 by EvilBivol-1