Campaign: Georgian Havoc

[igormk]

Ooopppssss! :doh:

 

Previously attached mission don’t have labels turned off. So if you downloaded it, you will have to turn them off with Left Shift + F10.

 

Sorry! :)

 

Here it is with labels disabled.

 

 

S!

ATO.S5.3 Battle for Batumi.miz

[slug88]

Had a little bit of time to get back into it tonight, and I made my first try on mission 5.1 - Supplies Cut Off.

 

Spoilers Ahead

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, the fog in this one is really crazy! I quickly climbed to 700m to escape the fog, but the minute or two of zero visibility was quite interesting! It was the first time I've flown the Ka-50 on instruments alone, and I liked the experience!

 

So after climbing to 700m, my wingman and I had an uneventful, though very scenic, flight to the target zone. One thing that I noticed, is that the sun shade for the HUD is very useful in this mission; I could barely make out the info on the HUD against the bright white fog, but with the sun shade it was perfect. Using the sun shade was another first for me in this sim, and so even more points to this mission for me :D.

 

When we got to the target area, my plan was for my wingmate and I to engage the air defenses simultaneously (use the element of surprise to overwhelm them before they could respond, I know that the AI doesn't care but it's fun to roleplay sometimes :)), which we accomplished. We then circled around for another pass. As I turned away from the targets I told my wingman to rejoin, and something happened which was very strange, funny, and sad at the same time. As he was turning around, my wingman descended into the fog for some reason, and shortly after he crashed right into the side of the mountain. I've never seen the AI fly directly into the ground like that before, so I guess that ED modeled the effects of poor visibility on collision avoidance for the AI aircraft! Of course it was silly of him to descend back into the fog in the first place, since I was comfortably above it the whole time.

 

So at this point it was solely up to me to finish off the ground targets. I used up all my Vikhrs, and then got complacent and went for a short range strafing attack with cannon. I should have known that Igor would punish me for my complacency :D. I got shot down by the SA-8 hidden in the fog, which was perfectly positioned to hit anyone that decided to overfly the target area. So for those of you who haven't played the mission yet but decided to read the spoilers anyway, shame on you! Now you know of that little trap :D.

 

So, overall impression of the mission is that I like it, it's a very unique BS experience (with the extreme fog levels), and I appreciate that the player is punished for being lazy and breaking SOP by overflying the target area. A weakness of the mission is, like the previous few missions, there's a complete lack of the radio chatter or friendly traffic that made the initial missions so engaging. Of course, I did read the briefing and I realize that radio silence and empty air space are intentional in this one, due to the fog, but still it would be nice to see something else in the mission besides static ground targets waiting for you to blow them up. Maybe some Flankers on CAP at 5km, or a Tu-22M doing recon from high altitude, or anything at all really. Though it's possible that something appears once I destroy the ground targets, and if that's the case I'll withdraw the comment :).

[igormk]

I’m glad you like the fog. :) and now I’m feeling curious how will you experience it on your way back home, since you have to land it safely on Senaki in order to complete the mission. :music_whistling:

 

About your wingman… Yeah, ED could work a bit on AI. This is only one example, but believe me when I tell you that most of my frustrations during building and testing this campaign were due to AI. Very often they just don’t react logically.

 

He, he, so you had close contact with the SAM. Just one more tip – it’s not just his position that matters here. :D

 

And one more comment on shortage of radio-comms in this exact mission. I must admit that it was by purpose because I was short in time to finish the campaign :music_whistling: (shame on me). Now I’m thinking on adding some, but, hmmm… Would it be realistic that any aircraft is airborne in so thick fog, and if it is, than would it be realistic to schedule Ka-50 for that task, if you could send Su-25, or Su-24? Just curious of your opinion. I’m thinking now to add maybe some comms between ground units, just to create the atmosphere, but they would be working on different frequencies, so hmmmm again.

 

Just to add that I have added some additional traffic and few more comms in previous missions, as you suggested.

 

Looking forward to your next comments!

 

And one more time – for all users of this campaign, CHANGE the last mission (ATO 5.3 Battle for Batumi) with the one attached above!!!

 

 

S!

[WindWpn]

Mission 10 - Cannot Find Ships!

 

I use the Map function to set the designated coordinates 35 km west of Batumi; however, I can never find the ships. I have flown the mission numerous time and simply never seen any ships west of Batumi. I have even flown to the markpoint, and then flew east towards Batumi and eventually get taken out by SAM near shore. All the way no ships!

 

Was wondering if anyone else has any issues finding the ships, of if they should be there if you fly the mark at 35 km west of Batumi.

 

Actually, I found why I cannot find the ship:

 

anyone have a suggestion?

 

EDIT: Ok, figured it out. Its a high res cloud mod, which actually states in the mod man info that it effects these ship and recommends disabling if a mission is flown which requires the ships. Doh!

 

Ok, ran mission and saw ships! Got waxed by the F16s, but at least I think I can complete this one now! Until I can try again.

Edited February 3, 2010 by WindWeapon

[igormk]

First of all I want to thank all of you who voted for Georgian Havoc in the competition. :)

 

 

Taking the prize (despite that there was no second place :music_whistling:) was a motivation plus for us to consider making Georgian Havoc 2, or other campaign in near future. Despite that I personally said, quote: “I will NEVER do it again!!!!!”. :D

 

 

Still, I must notice that it is a bit calm around this campaign lately. I understand that most of you guys did already finished it, or just get bored with it, and moved further, but I would like to kindly ask you for a bit more of your attention, and to provide me with more detailed spoiler warnings on missions 14 and (changed) 15.

 

So far I just have few comments on those missions from Goldfinger35 and NullCharacter (thanks guys!).

 

I really need that in order to make final changes, and release the v1.1. I did mention it would be around the end of January, so as you see, I’m a bit over dead line. :music_whistling:

And I don't have to mention that I don't like unfinished products.

 

 

Then I’m moving to other projects too. :D

 

 

S!

[slug88]

Just finished mission 5.1 - Supplies Cut Off

 

Spoilers Ahead!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, this time I employed a much more conservative strategy, and engaged from standoff distance with Vikhr's until I had 4 left, and then made a rocket run and shot all 40 rockets before breaking off at 2km (I got 12 kills with rockets, pretty sure that's my new record for rocket kills in 1 mission :D). The whole time I had my wingman on station in overwatch position. I then ordered my wingman to engage, while I covered him with the remaining 4 Vikhr's. He too engaged succesfully from standoff range, destroying all but one or two of the enemy targets before running out of missiles. Unfortunately, he was shot down by the SA-8 as he ran in with rockets (I should have ordered him to abort, knowing that the vehicle must have spawned by then, but I played the mission as if it were my first time and acted as I would without prior knowledge of the spawning SA-8 ). Of course, since the SA-8 is situated deep beneath the fog cover, I had absolutely no chance of destroying him, despite having clearly seen the launch. So, with my wingmate dead, I spent the last 4 Vikhrs on the remaining ground targets and the parked Mi-8's. I made it back home without incident; the landing seemd extremely difficult at first, but I just took it very slow and kept a careful eye on my attitude indicator and descent rate, and at around 100m the ground started coming in to view and I was easily able to land. So that would be the first time in this game I did an approach on instruments only, which was pretty neat :).

 

So, here are my criticisms/comments:

 

1. The fog looks so thick from above as to be surreal; perhaps adding an overcast cloud layer would make it seem a little more believable? Or lightening it up just a tad. Since you want visibility to remain low, you could set the mission at a time of day with a little less sunlight to make up for it. As it is it doesn't look like a believable weather condition to me. Of course, I don't live in a very foggy climate, perhaps these conditions are normal for some regions in the world, and if that's the case then I retract the comment :).

 

2. I realize now that in order to complete the mission without the loss of my teammate, I should have ordered him to attack while I did the same, so that we could destroy all targets before the Gecko spawned. However, unless I missed something in the briefing, the only way to know this is by playing through the mission once and getting killed or watching your wingman get killed, so it's very difficult to beat the mission successfully on the first try, even if you implement sound tactics. In my latter play-through, I always had one Ka-50 on station providing overwatch while the other attacked, though this made no difference at all to the survival of the attacking Ka-50, since the Gecko is unhittable and so far has a 100% shoot down rate. I suppose it's possible to destroy all targets from standoff range if you use all of the flight's Vikhrs, but I would think that in real life it would be SOP for each Ka-50 to save one or two missiles in case an unexpected threat appears in the target area. Point being, if you use proper tactics, you'll be punished by getting shot down or losing a wingman. On the other hand, if you brazenly throw all your missiles away at the visible targets, you'll be rewarded with mission success and no losses. Therefore, I think the spawning Gecko ultimately takes away from the mission.

 

3. On the other hand, you could reward a player for using sounder tactics (that is, one bird always stays on overwatch, don't use up all your missiles right away) if you spawn something that's a bit more reasonable. For example, you could spawn a few 23mm emplacements somewhere on the hillside at different times, the idea being that the enemy rushed to set up new firing spots as soon as they realized they're under attack. Along with a manpad or two, this would be a reasonable new threat that would punish careless players, but a very good player could overcome them on his first playthrough without prior knowledge. Or perhaps you could have a Shilka or a ZSU truck accompanied by a Strela launcher get spawned on the road somewhere south of the camp as soon as the attack begins, to arrive 3 or 4 minutes later as reinforcements.

 

4. However, if the idea of the spawning Gecko is to make the player destroy the targets as fast as possible (ie, use the element of surprise), then there should be more of a hint in the briefing that speed and surprise is highly encouraged.

[slug88]

I’m thinking now to add maybe some comms between ground units, just to create the atmosphere, but they would be working on different frequencies, so hmmmm again.

 

Perhaps you could have a spetsnaz forward air controller hiding somewhere in the mountains to direct the strike? This would give a lot of opportunities for chatting, and if you were especially bold you could even spice the mission up a little bit by having a random chance that enemy forces spot the spetsnaz team and deploy some forces to attack it, which you must destroy.

 

Just to add that I have added some additional traffic and few more comms in previous missions, as you suggested.

 

Great to hear! This is one of the biggest keys for immersion, imo.

[igormk]

Just finished mission 5.1 - Supplies Cut Off

 

Spoilers Ahead!

 

...

 

 

Thanks slug88!!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

Looking forward for your comments on 14th and 15th mission!!! :)

[WindWpn]

Anti-Arty:

 

How to complete mission? Twice I have successfully destroyed all artillery units in and around the airfield, along with all support vehicles, yet I receive not indication of mission progress. On the second flight, after destroying everything, I flew a fairly wide perimeter around the location of the enemy positions including width outlined in the mission planner, but still found no additional units. I circled the area around the enemy zone for over 30 min after destroying everything and received no indication of progress. I even flow directly over the WP 2 marker to see if that kicked in a trigger, no joy. I then flew back to WP1 to see if that kicked in a trigger, no joy. I returned to base, but failed the mission as the stats did not move from 50% complete, even though I destroyed all enemy units at the X airfield.

 

All in all, have others been able to get a "success" on Anti-Arty, and if so, what is the missing piece? If there are units located somewhere I missed, perhaps some sort of trigger would work to either have a SAM site at the second location, or something else to spark awareness that more units exist that must be destroyed.

[zdXu]

...

but I would like to kindly ask you for a bit more of your attention, and to provide me with more detailed spoiler warnings :D

 

 

S!

 

I will wait with the first playing until the new v1.1 version will be out.

 

Please do something with the weather. Its annoying to play with no wind... I doubt that 1m/s windspeed will affect the AI so much that they cannt correctly do their tasks. But maybe i am wrong. Dont know that.

Edited February 5, 2010 by zdXu

[slug88]

WindWeapon, this probably isn't very helpful, but I had no major issues beating this mission. If it's the one I'm thinking of, with lots of low level fog, then my guess is that you haven't really destroyed all the ground units even though you think you may have. Depending on your graphics settings, the fog can be very finicky in this game. For example, you might be able to see the ground from 400m away, but vehicles sometimes won't become visible until you're within 200m. I had to circle target area at very low level (100m-200m) several times before I saw all enemy units.

 

Edit: Regarding the pop-up fog issue, apparently there may be a fix contained here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49434

Will check it out myself over the weekend and report back.

Edited February 5, 2010 by slug88

[WindWpn]

Well, I ended up opening the mission file in the Mission Editor to look at all the enemy units placement, and indeed per the last 30 min circling over the area following destroying everything, I believe I nailed every thing in the mission. I flew very low over the area and definitely could visually identify all destroyed targets by the black craters and burning wreckage. Per the display on the mission editor screen, all were accounted for. I guess I can try again, with perhaps setting fog to 0 just to test it with no fog to take that out of the equation. Only other thing I could think of is that if some of the objects which need to be destroyed are "invisible" as I experienced in Secret Mission with the cargo ships. Though, I left that mod off while continuing the campaign.

 

For those who have successfully destroyed all targets, is there a radio call or some other trigger which is activated once all units are destroyed?

[slug88]

For those who have successfully destroyed all targets, is there a radio call or some other trigger which is activated once all units are destroyed?

 

I'm afraid I don't recall. However, since you've already examined the mission in the mission editor, you can easily check for yourself by looking at the triggers.

[WindWpn]

Here is a screen shot of the completion of destroying all targets for Anti-Arty. As seen in the shot, all 16 targets are destroyed including the 6 arty vehicles. However, I receive no word as to completion of the mission. When I press ' the results show only 50% complete.

 

Any suggestions?

[Frogfoot1606687865]

Bug in ATO S3.3 CSAR

 

Hi in the CSAR mission the the location of the missing pilot comes over the radio as 'Latitude: 42 degrees, 57,5 minutes North, Longitude: 42 degrees, 19,0 minutes East.' however The real co-ords should be Latitude: 41 degrees, 57,5 minutes North,Longitude: 42 degrees, 19,0 minutes East.'

The only way to find the downed pilot is to follow the Mi8

 

Apart from that it a great campaign

 

Cheers

Tom

[goldfinger35]

I have tested last mission (new version) and, despite a good idea for a mission, it didn't work out as it should;

Those F-15 intercepted me (that is o.k., I guess), but here is a problem:

Russian Su-25 kept attacking enemy airport while two A-10s and two F-15s landed on that same airport, completely ignoring Su-25 (Su-25 ignored them, too).

Additional problem is that Su-25 made 20 strafing runs on indestructable Sa-11 radar at the airport.

 

With some minor changes, this mission could work.

[igormk]

I will wait with the first playing until the new v1.1 version will be out.

 

Please do something with the weather. Its annoying to play with no wind... I doubt that 1m/s windspeed will affect the AI so much that they cannt correctly do their tasks. But maybe i am wrong. Dont know that.

 

Yes, I would also recommend that you wait for v1.1 if you didn’t start it yet.

 

OK, I will try to implement wind, at least in the missions where I don’t have AI helicopters that have to hover over location outside of the airport (that was the major issue with the wind).

 

Here is a screen shot of the completion of destroying all targets for Anti-Arty. As seen in the shot, all 16 targets are destroyed including the 6 arty vehicles. However, I receive no word as to completion of the mission. When I press ' the results show only 50% complete.

 

Uhh!!! WW, I’m sorry to say this, but really I don’t know what is the problem here. I see 16 wrecks burning around the airport, which is exact number of vehicles in the Grad group. Triggers are set so when you destroy them, you receive additional 40 points (plus 10 more if you land on Senaki after doing that). There are no extra triggers here. Except if Grad destroy your friendly units (indicating that you took your time too slow). But in that case you would receive message “Mission Failed”, and mission would automatically end.

 

Hi in the CSAR mission the the location of the missing pilot comes over the radio as 'Latitude: 42 degrees, 57,5 minutes North, Longitude: 42 degrees, 19,0 minutes East.' however The real co-ords should be Latitude: 41 degrees, 57,5 minutes North,Longitude: 42 degrees, 19,0 minutes East.'

The only way to find the downed pilot is to follow the Mi8

 

Hah! Nobody noticed this so far?!? :doh: Neither did I!

OK, actually Mi-8 is your mission leader, so you should follow and cover him anyway. Even with correct coordinates, don’t rush in front of Mi-8.

 

Thanks Frogfoot!

 

I have tested last mission (new version) and, despite a good idea for a mission, it didn't work out as it should;

Those F-15 intercepted me (that is o.k., I guess), but here is a problem:

Russian Su-25 kept attacking enemy airport while two A-10s and two F-15s landed on that same airport, completely ignoring Su-25 (Su-25 ignored them, too).

Additional problem is that Su-25 made 20 strafing runs on indestructable Sa-11 radar at the airport.

 

With some minor changes, this mission could work.

 

OK, finally someone to try the last mission. :)

 

Thanks Goldfinger35!

Where did they catch you? You have to follow Voskhod instructions, and when it says “RUN AWAY!!!”, do so! :D

Also do it very low, otherwise… you have no chance.

About F-15s and A-10s landing on the airport and the Su-25s too, hmmm…. I put a trigger that disable them (in order to increase FPS) as soon as you leave the hot zone. So I suppose that you stayed there, despite of Voskhod instructions, right? ;)

[WindWpn]

Yea, not sure why it does not work. Perhaps you can PM me a "working" copy of the working mis file (one verified as working correct) so I can update my set to run a test.

 

thx!

[HiJack]

Georgian Havoc mission “2.3 Going In!”

Enemy forces suddenly appear along the road where my wingman was searching for targets seconds ago! Now when looking at this mission in tacview it is truly made this way! Hallo! Please can you try to make the missions a bit more like natural? IMO this is NOT the way to make missions! If you make missions for singleplayer try to keep some realism in missions regarding to where and when the enemy appears please. I’m done with Georgian Havoc I think :noexpression:

[goldfinger35]

Where did they catch you? You have to follow Voskhod instructions, and when it says “RUN AWAY!!!”, do so! :D

Also do it very low, otherwise… you have no chance.

About F-15s and A-10s landing on the airport and the Su-25s too, hmmm…. I put a trigger that disable them (in order to increase FPS) as soon as you leave the hot zone. So I suppose that you stayed there, despite of Voskhod instructions, right? ;)

 

Yup, I didn't get far; F-15s got me after one minute or so. With full speed I guess I could have avoided them.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

This mission was a bit weird to me as well in the first time.

 

I positioned myself just ahead of Sibir 01, right in the entrance of the city, scanning the area to see if I get something.

 

Suddently, a bunch of soldiers pop up and I'm being shot at from the right, and Sibir asks us to help.

 

I was a bit "What the...?!" with it, really.

 

On the next trial, I decided that, instead of playing scout, I'd stay behind the main formation and do advanced cover. Worked out better, but the way units pop-up is still a bit strange.

 

A dilema, because if you spawn them before, even a blind man would see them and destroy them right away. Is it possible to spawn them all behind some buildings and make them move into position as the convoy approaches? I'm a bit concerned if FPS would drop when moving all those troops in position, but can you consider this suggestion?

 

Anyway, having loads of fun with the campaign, really immersive. Excellent missions and everything, congratulations to all the Georgian Havoc team :thumbup:

[igormk]

Yea, not sure why it does not work. Perhaps you can PM me a "working" copy of the working mis file (one verified as working correct) so I can update my set to run a test.

 

thx!

 

WW, here it's the Anti Arty in the original form.

 

P.S. destroyed vehicle count on your screenshot is 16. Is that together with AD vehicles? We should check that.

 

Georgian Havoc mission “2.3 Going In!”

Enemy forces suddenly appear along the road where my wingman was searching for targets seconds ago! Now when looking at this mission in tacview it is truly made this way! Hallo! Please can you try to make the missions a bit more like natural? IMO this is NOT the way to make missions! If you make missions for singleplayer try to keep some realism in missions regarding to where and when the enemy appears please. I’m done with Georgian Havoc I think :noexpression:

 

Huh… OK Rusty, let me explain what was the idea.

Let’s say that Norway is in war with Russia. You are battalion commander tasked to defend entrance of the city X. Russia have air superiority, and probably UAVs scanning the area, CAS aircraft waiting on station, and you can also see that the advancing ground forces have a flight of attack helicopters attached to perform scouting and A-G role. What would you do? Stay on the open fields and wait to be slaughtered even before contact with the enemy’s ground forces, or use the advantage of urban terrain and wait in ambush before popping out of cover and try to outgun the enemy?

That was the idea. Off course, IRL they wouldn’t just appear from nowhere. But the problem here is with the capabilities of the ME. It can be done different, but it would make use of the triggers MUCH more complicated. And let me remind that we are not in an open fields without vegetation, we are not in desert with nowhere to hide. We are on the entrance of the city with many places to hide. But, OK. It will be revised, and in next version, all enemy’s units (except closed ZUs) will be visible from start, but still hidden between the buildings and vegetation, so – I don’t think you will see them again. And let me convince you that IRL (without FLIR) it is almost impossible to spot well camouflaged objects from an aircraft.

 

If you think, that you are done with this campaign, it is OK, I respect that. It is very simple – if it is annoying you, you should quit right now, since it is in contrary with this campaign’s goal.

 

Still it is nice to have community members with such high criteria, and I would really like to see a mission or campaign produced from such person.

 

S!

ATO.S4.2 Anti Arty.miz

[zdXu]

Georgian Havoc mission “2.3 Going In!”

<font size="3"><font face="Calibri">Enemy forces suddenly appear along the road where my wingman was searching for targets seconds ago! Now when looking at this mission in tacview it is truly made this way! Hallo! Please can you try to make the missions a bit more like natural? IMO this is NOT the way to make missions! If you make missions for singleplayer try to keep some realism in missions regarding to where and when the enemy appears please.

 

Totaly agree. Spawning vehicles out of nowhere only when the player's heli is near is absolute crap.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

igormk, got it.

 

But just a curiosity: what's the ideal position to stay in that mission?

 

Scouting (flying a bit ahead of the leading elements), together with the first group, together with the second group (AA & a pair of veichles) or behind 'em all, wating for a call?

[HiJack]

OK I get the plot :music_whistling: but there is no time to help out at all, and I thought that was the mission. I see that hiding the enemy is not easy in the mission editor and that normal forces would hide using equipment for that. I will play the rest of the missions :P