picking a GPU is so hard to do

[Flyby]

I was looking about and came across another test of the ATi 5850. I'd read about the card before, but this test caused me to pause. Obviously some PC games perform better with ATi over Nvidia, and vice versa. My gaming interest is rather narrow. I only mess around with flight sims, and then predominantly with combat flight sims. But that does not make selecting a new video card any easier, imo. The 5850 seems to out perform the GTX285, and the 275 in some games, but falls behind in others. I guess the thing to do is to wait until new sims come out, and are tested the current crop of GPUs. I think Oleg said SoW will make use of DX-11.

Thoughts, anyone? Here's the link to the test:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/video/cypress-3-p1.html

Flyby out

[Conuk]

am in the same boat mate.

 

just ordered a new I7 - mobo - 6gb ram but left the gfx for now... well mainly because the 5800 series is mainly pre order......

 

Im going for ther 5870 .... I think......

 

but then I might go 5850 and get an SSD drive for OS and few games.... FSX on SSD special ?

[Flyby]

it's a big boat, I think Conuk. I'm certainly looking towards a DX11 card. One day the 5870 will be more widely available, I hope. Meanwhile Nvidia seems to be keeping things quiet, but I'll assume a DX11 card from them is in the plans as well. Little doubt Nvidia will aim to dislodge the 5870 as the big boy on the single-GPU block. Such a card is liable to cost what's left in the mint. If it conclusively beats the ATi card that may mean a price drop for the 5870 which will make it an even more desirable solution.

As for FSX on an SSD, I'm not sure that will make up for the sim only running on 1 core. Then again I don't know much about such things. Good luck with it and be sure to let us all know if you conquer that.

Flyby out

PS the 5850 seems a good option too as the link points out. Just seems to depend on the game versus Nvidia's current best single GPUs. May be a killer card in Xfire too. ;) What mobo are you using?

Edited December 15, 2009 by Flyby

[Conuk]

well apparently the NVIDIA stuff wont be here till maybe May.... Ive just found the following card in stock ... with me by wednesday :)

 

XFX ATI Radeon HD 5870 XXX 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card

 

This should do the trick - in 2 minds whether to order a SSD for Windows....

 

will let you know how this setup pans out.

 

pity though - will have to I7 with me old 8800 GTX tomorrow till ATI card comes !

[Conuk]

and I bought Rise Of Flight ... and it ran pretty rubbish on this QX6700 rig @ 1920 x 1200 (understandably) so maybe I can max it up when new stuff comes....

 

One day will be able to have water on high lol in lock on ;)

[sinelnic]

As for FSX on an SSD, I'm not sure that will make up for the sim only running on 1 core.

 

Hi Flyby,

 

The SSD will help with the loading speeds of the terrain, FSX will usually show blurry textures when flying low and fast as it can´t load the textures fast enough.

Also, FSX after Acceleration, IIRC, actually uses all available cores, one for the sim, the rest for handling the loading of textures into the engine (i.e. texture streaming).

[Flyby]

well blow me down!

 

Conuk I feel your pain with RoF, and your anticipation of better things to come. ;) Of course I look forward to reading about the performance of RoF on your new system, with the new card.

Sinelnic, thanks for the info on FSX. I was not aware of how improved the sim was. Do you think the SSD might help a sim like IL2 when it comes to flying over Berlin ( I read that doing so causes stutters)?

Flyby out

Edited December 17, 2009 by Flyby
because I murdered the spelling of "sinelnic" :P)

[sweinhart3]

I personally havent bought one yet tho I plan too, but you cant go wrong with the SSD. Everything Ive read is that is one upgrade that once you get you cant go back. Faster load times will benefit every game you have. Of course it wont make up for a slow cpu or video card, but if you run a decent rig, thats the best upgrade you can make right now. As far as video cards, I run a GTX280 and havent found a need to upgrade, but right now ATI has the performance crown with their new 58xx series cards. When Nvidia comes out with their Fermi based cards who knows. Ive spent a lot of years waiting on parts that are supposed to be better and faster than the current stuff, but in all likelyhood, you can probably buy anything currently on the market and be happy with it unless your into benchmarking or extreme gaming.

[Flyby]

damn this waiting!!!

 

well sweinhart I'm waiting forthe availability of the 5870 to improve, as well as the Nvidia release. I figure if the latter comes out soon enough and regains by a significant margin the performance title for a single GPU, AMD will respond by lowering the price of the 5870. I can be patient because my recession is in slow recovery. ;) One thing that muddies the water is the Hydra factor. Who knows if further testing will reveal it to be the "next coming" for PC gamers? Then at what price? Will it make an SLi or X-fire configuration seem more palatable? Will it make them obsolete? I'm not a fan of either method, preferring a single GPU, but if I'm trying to build a **temporarily** future-proof gaming rig I have to consider two GPUs (don't I?). Oleg's SoW_BoB fills me with dread for specs, but it's been in development for so long that it has to have fallen into the grasp of modern PC tech by now. Hasn't it?:huh:

Who has the crystal ball for rendering future sims?:helpsmilie:

Flyby out

[sweinhart3]

Well just remember that AMD/Nvidia is always back and forth with each other performance wise. Every other year the opposite is winning the performance crown so you cant win really. Ive built my rigs to support dual video cards for the last several years but never incorporated it. One problem is amount of power required for them. Ive stuck with 1 video card and been happy. Have you looked into the 5970 card? That one is gonna be tough for Nvidia to beat. Read the review here:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3679

[Flyby]

the article is a good read. I notice that conclusion indicated the 5970 is overkill unless used with multiple monitors. Certainly it is a monster even at 2560 rez. But I think most gamers will do well with the 5870 (or Nvidia's unknown reply to it) on a single monitor at a more common 1900x resolution. I fall in that category, so I agree that a single GPU is the better route to take. ;)

Flyby out

[emenance]

If I had to do it now I think I would just go with the 5770 http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=795

 

As my wallet is making more decisions lately I tend to stay out of the finner details of ohhhhh this has so much more transistors or something. AS long as the performance is there and the thing can deliver quality and is reasonable .....its going to win my money

 

oh and the 5770 is a dx 11 card. Actually I think nvidia is a better company and has the best design but again the wallet wanted to with the 5770. I decided I have too many other things to worry about right now. LIKE BUYING A NEW STICK! Make that easy !

[Grimes]

I can attest to the 5770 being a quality card. I just picked one up for my aging computer and it works wonders. It has similar performance to the 4870 but a tad slower in most areas. However 2 DVI, 1 Displayport, and 1 HDMI out, plus DX11, awesomely low thermal temps and power requirements and its audio decoding abilities for HTPC usages makes it a great value.

[Flyby]

that's good feedback on the 5770 card, guys. My focus in almost purely on how a card will perform in modern flight sims, since I'm hoping to render decent performance in Storm of War. Some times I check out the Rise of Flight forums to see if I can learn something about new card performance from those guys. I'm still saving pennies so I'll see how far I can go when the time comes to buy a GPU. I'm still trying to see what Nvidia is up to with it's new GPUs as well, but all quiet on that front so far.

Anyway, keep the info flying forth about BS and any other flight sim using the 5770. Can't have enough info. ya know? ;)

Flyby out

[CyBerkut]

Well, the latest in the rumor mill about nVidia doesn't look as promising as before:

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/12/21/nvidia-castrates-fermi-448sps/

 

I don't remember if you mentioned it before Flyby... how many screens do you intend to run?

 

Personally, I'm still in a holding pattern. It would be nice to see nVidia 3xx, Lucid Hydra, and Intel i9 items out on the market... if for no other reason than to help drive prices down on the current stuff. ATM, I'm leaning toward an i7 920 with an ATI 5870. Analysis paralysis, don'cha know! ;)

 

Edit: It looks like the first Intel 6 core / 12 thread processor will be released as an i7 980x instead of as an i9.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/12/14/models-names-and-pricing-revealed-upcoming-intel-cpus/

Edited December 28, 2009 by CyBerkut
i9, i7, it's all odd to me. ;^)

[Buzzman]

"Analysis paralysis, don'cha know!"

 

That is what I am in now... And cash flow is slow right now.Maybe spring???

The 5870 has my vote right now.

[Flyby]

hey CyBerkut, I'm only running one screen. With a bit of luck a 28 inch model, but I'm not into the 30 inch models, at least not the 25xx resolution. Yeah, one screen for me. I guess that puts me in the same boat as (the) Buzzman: the 5870 is looking very good. What will Nvidia come out with that's comparable in performance and price? From the article you linked, it looks as if I'm being shoved back into the waiting arms of ATi, anyway. Only problem is with AMD/ATi raising the price of 58XX series because they have superior product on the shelves now versus new silicone from the Green Goblin. So maybe the 5850? It's a pretty much a match for the GTX-285.

Flyby out

PS I'm hoping the newer sims like RoF, and especially SoW will be primarily CPU-limited as all good little flight sims are. But didn't I read somewhere that Sow will support DX11? Now that should look sweet! :D

Edited December 28, 2009 by Flyby
explosive diarrhea!

[emenance]

Make things match. all hardware.

 

For example: Flight sims need to do AA anti aliasing ..... best as possible and process textures and geometry best as possible. Right now RED wins over Green for flight sims. ATI wins

Green kills red for eye candy stuff like left for dead or other high tech 3d grafics. Thats just the general rule to keep in mind as far as I know. ATI looser.

Edited December 28, 2009 by emenance

[*Rage*]

Why a 5870? A 5850 will give you practically as much performance but cost you alot less.

 

I have a 30' monitor and run at 2560 with all options. I currently have a GTX 260 (216 and mildly OCed) that handles DCS just fine. Somebody in another thread commented that he had zero fps gain going from 4870 to 5870. Zero! but 5FPS gain ocing his CPU 3.6Ghz-4Ghz.

[CyBerkut]

Lots of variables to factor in. If Flyby sticks with one monitor, then he could very well be happy with the 5850, especially if he doesn't get into some other game that is *really* demanding on graphics. As for me, my longer term goal is to have multiple displays. Currently, I'm leaning toward using a sizeable LCD TV screen as the camera view, but I haven't completely ruled out going with a 3 screens wide arrangement yet. Right now, I'd rather put the additional display horsepower into a touchscreen running TouchPal (or perhaps LEAVU by then), and possibly small screens behind MFD button collars. On top of that, I run other games and some of those could get to be very demanding on graphics. Time will tell.

[emenance]

I can attest to the 5770 being a quality card. I just picked one up for my aging computer and it works wonders. It has similar performance to the 4870 but a tad slower in most areas. However 2 DVI, 1 Displayport, and 1 HDMI out, plus DX11, awesomely low thermal temps and power requirements and its audio decoding abilities for HTPC usages makes it a great value.

 

Hi Grimes

 

i meant to ask you about this, the 4870 being faster you say buged me and so does the bit bus of the 5770 that I dont like.

 

The bit bus on a vc is like the highway for memory. Based on old rules for example a 128mb vc that has a 64 bit bit bus is a little crippled. The highway doesnt have enough lanes to push the memory through. But if the card has a 128 bit bus then there will be no bottleneck for the memory.

 

I have always thought that this is just a scam that the manufactures do to get you to buy a bigger card and it works. They handicap a decent looking card but rip you in the details, leaving you wanting more. Class action lawsuits were put on ati and nvidia about a year ago. I sent off the claim letter but have not gotten anything back. The complaint is about artificial price manipulation. Part of the problem in the 9800 days was the xbox getting most of ati's production of gpu's but I still like seeing them get sued. $1000.00 for a 9800 xt AIW or something was a complete and gross rip off.

 

So Grimes, tell us if you can, do your performance problems seem to be coming from memory? Are you overclocking any?

[Flyby]

emenance, you remind me that A good friend found out that he needs to check the specs of any GPU carefully. Some years ago I sold him an ATi 9500 Pro. He somehow figured he'd be better off with a slight upgrade, and bought an ATi 9550. He wound up with a lesser-performing GPU that had a higher model number. Not really the same as you speak of, but very close. So buyer beware, and all that.

CyBerkut, the 5850 is a viable option for me. In fact I was leaning that way, but if the budget will allow it I want to step up a bit further. Heck I was wanting a GTX275 or 285, and the 5850 seems to out-perform them. But the 5870 looms in front, and makes me think I'm future-proofing (if only a little bit).

Now two 5850s would be killer, but multi-GPUs seem to scale per individual sim. That's a problem for me, and Hydra has yet to prove itself in independent testing. So a powerful single GPU that's the best my money can buy. That may be a 5770.:music_whistling:

I think we really need to be as well informed as possible when selecting a GPU. For me the question is: how much card do I need for a combat flight sim, especially one that uses tons of CPU-cycles like AI, radars, FM, DM, weapons performance, and anything else including a guy holding a stinger?

If overclocking a CPU gives a 5-fps bump in a combat sim that's relevant stuff. I'm also thinking of the complex clouds in SoW.

So maybe I want a card that will deliver DX11 goodness at decent frame rates, and a cpu that can keep up with all the missiles in the air plus lock up the first 6 bandits as well as keep my AI wingman from flying in to a mountain.

phew! I'm confused again.

Flyby out