Maxfps not working

[Woots]

My system is hovering at 62-65 fps, with occasional dips to 45-55 as I fly near big cities.

 

I want to limit my max fps to 60 to match my monitor - I'd occasionally get "tearing" as the fps fell below 60 occasionally but I would prefer that to a drop to 30 fps if I enable Vsync.

 

I set Maxfps=60 in the graphics config file but my fps still shows 64 fps and I get tearing. Can anyone confirm Maxfps limits their framerate correctly?

[StrongHarm]

Woots, it does limit your FPS. For the tearing kick the AA up to full in your card properties. I found this actually decreased my CPU usage.. for some odd reason. I did lengthy research here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=813902#post813902

[Frazer]

Make sure Vertical sync is at Force on. If Vsync is working, then you should have frames limited to your screen refresh rate (60hz/fps) and you will not need to setup MaxFPS in graphics.cfg. With Vsync on there should be no tearing, also not with frames lower than 60.

 

What graphics card do you have?

[Woots]

Woots, it does limit your FPS.

 

That's my issue - it's not limiting mine. It still shows 64 fps even though I specified Maxfps=60 in the config file. I've used your tweak guide (thanks!) and am now > 60 fps 95% of the time. Also, you can't fix "tearing" with AA. They're not related.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Woots

[Woots]

Make sure Vertical sync is at Force on. If Vsync is working, then you should have frames limited to your screen refresh rate (60hz/fps) and you will not need to setup MaxFPS in graphics.cfg. With Vsync on there should be no tearing, also not with frames lower than 60.

 

What graphics card do you have?

 

What you said is correct because for fps > 60, the output is 60 with vsync on. For fps < 60, the output is 30 fps with vsync on. I get stuttering alot and am thinking it's the 60 fps to 30 fps back to 60 fps I'm noticing. Do I have that right? I was trying to avoid using vsync by limiting my max fps to 60 using the Maxfps command, then when it did fall below 60 fps (say 45-55) I'd get a little tearing since it isn't in sync with my monitor.

 

So basicallly I'm experimenting. Which is less distracting - tearing below 60 fps or the fall to 30 fps if I force Vsync ON.

 

I've got the Nvidia GXT 285

Edited January 29, 2010 by Woots

[Frazer]

Well if you have Vsync on you will have more stuttering because you don't allow the tearing. I found that having Vsync on is giving a more pleasant view, though this is rather a preference.

 

The lowest frame rate doesn't really change no matter if you have Vsync on or off, though with Vsync off, it may appear to the eye a bit smoother, if you don't care about the tearing.

 

Note that limiting your FPS in graphics.cfg does not solve the tearing.

 

Edit: For the smoothest gameplay I have Vsync ON, and MaxFPS = 45. My frames drop to 30 due to cities, though it is only a 15 fps difference. If you go from 60 FPS to 30 FPS, this is a more noticeable difference.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Frazer

[Woots]

Ok, sorry to beat a dead horse but I'm missing something. Here's my assumptions

With Vsync ON the game refreshes my monitor at either 30 or 60 fps - period, regardless of what the physical in-game FPS is (so I don't understand when you say "the lowest frame rate doesn't really change no matter if you have Vsync on or off).

 

If I can get the game to limit my FPS to 60 FPS (to match my 60 Hz monitor), THAT would prevent tearing as long as the in-game FPS didn't fall below 60 fps. If it did fall below 60 fps, only then would I get tearing (but I would be seeing 45-55 FPS update).

Edited January 29, 2010 by Woots

[Frazer]

Well if I have Vsync on, my frames are certainly NOT at 30 but 60 fps......also when I have 50 or 40 fps, they are true.

[Bucic]

In case you haven't read this http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49448&page=2 , #11

 

Looking at the chart you can tell that you have an option to go for ~40 FPS by choosing 75 Hz monitor refresh rate. This is the purpose of this chart.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Bucic

[Woots]

In case you haven't read this http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49448&page=2 , #11

 

Ha! I was going to refer to that thread myself. Frazer, with Vsync ON, your update rate is limited to be a multiplier of your monitors refresh rate. I don't confess to understand it, but I've read that from several sources.

 

But we digress. For a 60 Hz monitor, limiting my FPS to 60 using MAxfps in graphics.cfg should get rid of tearing without the need to use Vsync. Someone show me where I'm wrong please.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Woots

[Bucic]

First lets set things straight and separate tearing from stuttering. Image tearing is what you can see in the thread about Vsync. Tearing...is tearing. Stuttering shows as not-smooth movement due to very fast FPS variation, often many variations within a second. So in extreme situations the last digit of FPS meter will go crazy and you won't be able to read out the value.

 

Now,

 

Vsync solves both - image tearing (completely!) and stuttering.

The case were you'll get your FPS oscillating around threshold value (e.g. 30 FPS for 60 Hz monitor) is unlikely. At least I haven't seen anything like it. If you will stumble on such problem, refer to my chart here http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=822644&postcount=11 and try to address the problem by changing your monitor refresh rate.

 

Max FPS limit does not solve image tearing at all (not related) and causes limited improvement to the stuttering (FPS variation).

Why limited? Because it limts FPS from the top only -> it only limits the range of FPS variation i.e. FPS can still go crazy from the FPS limit value down and back again to the FPS limit.

 

________________________________________________________________

 

Also, if my FPS does fall to 30 fps with Vsync ON, why does the game still report the 45-55 it's really running at and not the 30 fps it's using to update the monitor. It never shows > 60 FPS with Vsync ON even though the FPS are really > 60. It just seems inconsistant - it should always display the real FPS or always show 60 or 30.

First possibility - your monitor refresh rate is NOT 60 Hz. To be absolutely sure use monitor built-in menu (OSD menu) to confirm that.

Second possibility - FPS indicator may show the FPS value slightly off e.g. 33 instead of 30. Just forget about it.

[Woots]

First lets set things straight and separate tearing from stuttering. Image tearing is what you can see in the thread about Vsync. Tearing...is tearing. Stuttering shows as not-smooth movement due to very fast FPS variation, often many variations within a second. So in extreme situations the last digit of FPS meter will go crazy and you won't be able to read out the value.

 

No one said otherwise. Welcome aboard.

 

 

Vsync solves both - image tearing (completely!) and stuttering.

The case were you'll get your FPS oscillating around threshold value (e.g. 30 FPS for 60 Hz monitor) is unlikely. At least I haven't seen anything like it. If you will stumble on such problem, refer to my chart here http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=822644&postcount=11 and try to address the problem by changing your monitor refresh rate.

 

My in-game fps is oscillating around 60 fps (from 58-65 fps) as I clearly stated. With Vsync on, that makes the refresh rate oscillate from 60 to 30 to 60, i.e back and forth as stated in your chart.

 

Max FPS limit does not solve image tearing at all (not related) and causes limited improvement to the stuttering (FPS variation).

Why limited? Because it limts FPS from the top only -> it only limits the range of FPS variation i.e. FPS can still go crazy from the FPS limit value down and back again to the FPS limit.

 

Then they should label it max FPS variation limit! But they didn't, so if it's really variation that changes everything.

 

________________________________________________________________

 

 

First possibility - your monitor refresh rate is NOT 60 Hz. To be absolutely sure use monitor built-in menu (OSD menu) to confirm that.

 

Negative - it's a plasma TV, the refresh rate is 60 Hz.

 

Second possibility - FPS indicator may show the FPS value slightly off e.g. 33 instead of 30. Just forget about it.

 

Like I clearly stated, the FPS indicator is showing 45-55, that's not a value slightly off 30.

 

Bucic thanks for the help, but really. . .we're going in circles.

 

- I have a 60 hz plasma for a monitor

- my in-game FPS is from 55-65 fps 95% of the time

- my in-game FPS is 45-55 fps 5% of the time

 

Why would I need Vsync ON if I can use maxfps setting to limit the in-game FPS to 60 WHICH WOULD BE IN SYNC WITH MY MONITOR! AND IF THE GAME FELL < 60 FPS THAT 5% OF THE TIME I WOULD GET TEARING WHICH I CAN DEAL WITH.

 

If Maxfps is the range of variance, not a cap on the FPS magnitude that's the key. It's the first I heard of it - I don't think alot of people realize that.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Woots

[bfeld]

Why would I need Vsync ON if I can use maxfps setting to limit the in-game FPS to 60 WHICH WOULD BE IN SYNC WITH MY MONITOR! AND IF THE GAME FELL < 60 FPS THAT 5% OF THE TIME I WOULD GET TEARING WHICH I CAN DEAL WITH.

.

 

Hi,

 

maybe I got you wrong, but tearing is not directly related to game- and display frequency. It appears, if the image is displayed while the new image is already drawn to the video buffer. Thus, you see two different images, horizontally tiled. The only way to avoid this is to not fill the image buffer while displaying -- which is done with vsync, vertical synchronization. Otherwise, your 60 Hz display will most probably be not in sync with your 60 Hz game frequency.

To view it from another perspective: it doesn't matter which frequency your game or your display runs, if vsync is on, tearing is avoided.

 

Bye, bfeld

Edited January 29, 2010 by bfeld

[Bucic]

Why would I need Vsync ON if I can use maxfps setting to limit the in-game FPS to 60 WHICH WOULD BE IN SYNC WITH MY MONITOR! AND IF THE GAME FELL < 60 FPS THAT 5% OF THE TIME I WOULD GET TEARING WHICH I CAN DEAL WITH.

This indicates that you have failed to acknowledge what I clearly said before which is

Vsync solves both - image tearing (completely!) and stuttering.

 

:vertag: Max FPS limit does not solve image tearing at all (not related):vertag: and causes limited improvement to the stuttering (FPS variation).

 

Without Vsync on you can get image tearing 100% of the time. If the conditions are right of course.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Bucic

[Frazer]

Sorry if I don't get this (it's a good topic ;)) but in this post Bucic, you mention the following:

Disadvantages

Only FPS equal to 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 etc. of monitor refresh rate is possible e.g. in case of 60 Hz monitor refresh rates 60fps, 30fps, 20fps, 15fps, 12fps are available.

 

Solution1:

Force triple buffer but this works only in OpenGL games. For DirectX there is a tool called D3D Overrider‎ but it rarely works. I tried it for BS and it didn't. You can also try http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=60591

 

Solution2:

Pick refresh rate which will give you 1/1, 1/2 or 1/3 of monitor refresh rate closer to your target FPS. You can do a simple spreadsheet with three graphs to assist you. Not much room for maneuvers here, as you can see...

 

Now, I wouldn't mind to believe this if I didn't see a huge difference between my limited fps 45, and 30 when I'm near a city. In other words, there must be more steps between them as only 60 or 30 fps......

I do have Triple buffering on, maybe this simply does work on DCS (DirectX game)?

[Bucic]

Now, I wouldn't mind to believe this if I didn't see a huge difference between my limited fps 45, and 30 when I'm near a city. In other words, there must be more steps between them as only 60 or 30 fps......

I do have Triple buffering on, maybe this simply does work on DCS (DirectX game)?

5% that DCS has its own "triple buffering implementation", 95% that Vsync "is not working". Also note that possible values are not 75, 38, 19 but 75, 38, 25 and make sure what is the actual monitor refresh rate in-game.

 

Check this one out! :D

Edited January 30, 2010 by Bucic

[Frazer]

Well I have seen the figure, though I'm wondering WHY I don't experience this in game........

[Bucic]

Well I have seen the figure, though I'm wondering WHY I don't experience this in game........

It's been a while but I don't think I had any problems with forcing Vsync. The problem can be display driver. I remember few (in a row!!!) driver versions from nVidia were useless in forcing some settings. I can't think of any other problem cause. You should be able to tell right away if Vsync turned on by panning cokcpit camera horizontaly, fast and observing cokcpit frames. If there's no difference between Vsync on and off and there is a visible tearing on cockpit frames, Vsync hasn't "kick in". If Vsync works and you still get 30 and 45 FPS I can't think of anything else than indication errors. Cross checking with different ones like FRAPS makes no sense IMO. The built-in one is always right.

 

Are you using both max FPS limit and Vsync ON at the same time?

 

I could tell more if you would upload FPS vs time data. Or at least confirm the state of FPS limit, Vsync and your monitor refresh rate when in-game.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Bucic

[Wolf Rider]

you get stuttering on a LCD monitor if the game is running at less than the monitor FPS, is that right?

 

Also I found, pre UPS, my monitor RF was 59.4Hz but after I installed my UPS the monitor RF is now at 60Hz

Edited January 30, 2010 by Wolf Rider

[Frazer]

I do use Vsync and MaxFPS. Vsync is working 100% sure. I have MaxFPS at 45 to limit the difference of going from super smooth, 60fps, to 30fps when I look at cities. I found the difference much less noticable when I have frames limited to 45, with only 15fps difference instead of 30.

 

Now, if it is true that with Vsync on you can get eighter 60, or 30 fps and nothing between it, why do I see a difference between 45 and 30, and 45 and 60?

[Bucic]

you get stuttering on a LCD monitor if the game is running at less than the monitor FPS, is that right?

No. Please go back and read again - stuttering vs tearing and max FPS vs Vsync.

 

I do use Vsync and MaxFPS. Vsync is working 100% sure. I have MaxFPS at 45 to limit the difference of going from super smooth, 60fps, to 30fps when I look at cities. I found the difference much less noticable when I have frames limited to 45, with only 15fps difference instead of 30.

 

Now, if it is true that with Vsync on you can get eighter 60, or 30 fps and nothing between it, why do I see a difference between 45 and 30, and 45 and 60?

I think I can rest my case :) Using MaxFPS combined with Vsync ON causes this "weird" behavior. If you don't understand something, look at one thing at a time. How it is possible? I don't know. If you're going to observe the same with MaxFPS OFF and Vsync ON then I don't know how to explain.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Bucic

[Wolf Rider]

 

No. Please go back and read again - stuttering vs tearing and max FPS vs Vsync.

 

 

 

err... not no at all... there is a very slight stutter when flying over ground at FPS less than LCD monitor RF @ 60 Hz (Similar to series4 LCD televisions), plus with MAXFPS=30 an occasional "clutch slip" typ effect.

 

 

Get directly (outside view) over the rotor blades in free flight (stock) to see this.

 

 

 

Do we need to define "stutter"?

 

 

 

 

a tip: set the AUTOEXECUTE.cfg file to run (quad core) the sim on cores 1, 2 and 3... leaving core 0 for the op. sys.) ;)

Edited January 30, 2010 by Wolf Rider

[Bucic]

err... not no at all... there is a very slight stutter when flying over ground at less than LCD monitor RF @ 60 Hz (Similar to series4 LCD televisions), plus with MAXFPS=30 an occasional "clutch slip" typ effect.

 

 

Get directly (outside view) over the rotor blades in free flight (stock) to see this.

 

 

 

Do we need to define "stutter"?

I think I covered everything and in a way that there should be no confusion anymore. If you are still confused / have questions I'm afraid I will be able to help you only if you ask specific, short questions or if you quote short bits of my posts - those you don't understand/you have comments on.

[Wolf Rider]

its not me that is confused, sorry to say... check it for yourself buddy

[Bucic]

its not me that is confused, sorry to say... check it for yourself buddy

OK :)