Tripple A

[Funkyjazz]

It has been a long time ago since i've bought this game and i accidently saw that LOMAC also supported TIR. Recently iv'e bought FC and whohaa...this is a kickass game!!

Tomorrow im gonna buy the X52 Pro and hell will break lose (ik hope...or not):music_whistling:

 

But..right now im only playing the training missions with the A10 (baby steps!). The second missions were you need to destroy to collums with the Canon and the rockets. It took me a long time to see why i got shot al the time: i just got to close! So first i'll have to take out the Tripple A, sams ect before taking out the trucks which are harmless. In the training mission i know that the AAA is located at both ends of the collum. But if you do not have this information. How do you get the information. I tried a full speed 100 FT pass, even then they were able to hit me. From a distance its to difficult to see ("no labels" on). I dont wanna cheat by turning on the labels. So how are you doing that? Are their defense systems always on the edge of collums or groups?

[Xjikz]

Well... usually I would do that with the missiles, but if you do only have guns and rockets, take the rockets because you can shoot and evade.

 

Try fly as much high as you can so you can see were they are (easy with the TIR... isn't it?) then take maximum speed while loosing altitude and launch your rockets.

[GGTharos]

SHORAD will typically not reach you above 13000'. Climb up to 20 and attack from there (omg but that takes so long gg!) ... suck it up and just do it :D

[flask]

On the run up, try not to fly straight at them untill you are in range, put some angles and hight changes into the attack, once you get the hang of it, start trying different load outs, but Beware, its rumored that some of the AI ground movers defence profile's are based on Chuck Norris's multi award winning book "How to Kick serious Butt":smilewink:

[159th_Viper]

....The second missions were you need to destroy to collums with the Canon and the rockets....

 

RTB and Smack your Ground-Crew about the Head for forgetting to Load the Mav's......:D

 

OK - Jokes aside, as GG said, Fly High. Utilize your RWR to aid in SHORAD Identification, keeping in mind that it will not aid in Strela/Igla Threats if you do manage to stray into their WEZ.

 

Personally I always have regard to the brief and amend the Loadout provided to suit the Mission parameters - That way you are not left with the unenviable task of attempting to Plink targets with those A-10 Rockets from 3500m AGL......Can they even reach that far? :P

[GGTharos]

Actually about that...I've seen some A-10 targeting modes for rockets and distances that will make your head spin exorcist style, and have you running in the streets naked shouting 'WTF'. And holding up a WTF sign.

 

 

 

Personally I always have regard to the brief and amend the Loadout provided to suit the Mission parameters - That way you are not left with the unenviable task of attempting to Plink targets with those A-10 Rockets from 3500m AGL......Can they even reach that far? :P

[Nate--IRL--]

FunkyJazz, real A-10a pilots use Binoculars. Use the cockpit zoom function when checking targets, it makes it easier (but still not easy).

 

Nate

[RedTiger]

Actually about that...I've seen some A-10 targeting modes for rockets and distances that will make your head spin exorcist style, and have you running in the streets naked shouting 'WTF'. And holding up a WTF sign.

 

Are you amending what you've said previously and saying you CAN in fact snipe with rockets? :D

[GGTharos]

I said nothing about accuracy in the above post :D

[Funkyjazz]

Mmm...i thougt a A-10 was a low fly attack plane. I mean common this big mama (which i love) climbs like my grandmother in a wheelchair.

 

What i always see in movies is they come in low, make a pass, climb making a 180 during the climb ready for another pass. If i have to climb to 20 with that...that big fat lady my beard grows and the collum has set off to Afrika.

 

What is the max range of rockets...6 miles? When i come in at 4000 with a a speed of 200, throttle dead, aiming, aiming wrong, rudder left, rudder right, steer high, low: Rockets off...SH.t, break..break!! "Boom"..."fire enige left, fir engine right". EEEEejecting....sounds allmost like my girl when she...whatever.

 

Anyways...im going to practice again. In the second training mission the A-10 is only loaded with rockets and cannons. Mission 5 (i believe is with the mavs..but...as ive said before: babysteps.

Btw: can you alter the load of the plane during the training missions?

 

hunt them down guys!

[GGTharos]

Like I said ... climb to 20. Quit fighting it and just do it ;)

Or at minimum get up to 15 and initiate a dive attack from there. If you really, really want to do the attack below that, just spam flares as you're aproaching (no, don't wait to see the missile launch) and cross your fingers.

That's how it was done RL - heck, the rule was 'no flight below 8000' in Iraq, IIRC, and in many cases no lower than 10000' over bosnia. So much for 'low fly'.

 

You adapt your tactics to the threat, not what you see in Youtube clips.

Edited February 17, 2010 by GGTharos

[Funkyjazz]

Like I said ... climb to 20. Quit fighting it and just do it ;)

Or at minimum get up to 15 and initiate a dive attack from there. If you really, really want to do the attack below that, just spam flares as you're aproaching (no, don't wait to see the missile launch) and cross your fingers.

That's how it was done RL - heck, the rule was 'no flight below 8000' in Iraq, IIRC, and in many cases no lower than 10000' over bosnia. So much for 'low fly'.

 

You adapt your tactics to the threat, not what you see in Youtube clips.

 

Check, i just tried a higher altitude. Everytime i get to close and get shot. Why? Because i loose precious time..why? cause my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro has spikes in the pots. I thought i fixed it with contact spray but no, 1 mm or less movement of the stick rocks the plane up and down like a rollercoaster. So...tomorrow its going to be the big day: Saitek X52 Pro...you'll hear from me soon lads.

 

My god, i love this game:thumbup:

[GGTharos]

Yes, a crummy stick will definitely ruin your aim :/

But the trick here is also ... if you see you can't line up and take the shot by the time you reach min altitude, pull out, come around for another pass. Do NOT practice 'take the shot at all cost' tactics. You can always do that ... practice safe (for yourself :D ) delivery instead.

[Funkyjazz]

Yes, a crummy stick will definitely ruin your aim :/

But the trick here is also ... if you see you can't line up and take the shot by the time you reach min altitude, pull out, come around for another pass. Do NOT practice 'take the shot at all cost' tactics. You can always do that ... practice safe (for yourself :D ) delivery instead.

 

Thats a good point!! You are right indeed that im willing to take the shot even if im under the minimum alt. I must learn to be patient. Thats a true goodie what your saying. Its allmost worth a Sticky for newbies.

 

Its strange that i didn't think of that. Probably its the heat of the fight which causes a certain amount of stress...and im just sitting safely behind a screen. Makes you think about real pilots:cry:.

 

Okay...back to school: lesson 1: be patient or it will kill you.

 

Thanks!

[159th_Viper]

....Do NOT practice 'take the shot at all cost' tactics....

 

The Infamous 'Belly-Flop on Gun-Run' scenario....:music_whistling:

 

Still Happens to the Best of Us :doh: :D

[coolts]

Always assume that a column has some anti-air protection. Usually at the tail end. Make a high approach from their 3 or 9 for recon. If you have IR mavericks, scan the columns profile and look for the distinctive shape of the AAA vehicles. Kill them first then it’s a turkey shoot.

Strafe the convoy from their 6 to line them up nicely.

Btw. I recently started the A-10 campaign again as the F-15 was stressing me out too much and I was getting caught in my own frag blast. Low alt low bomb / strafe runs are inadvisable against armed targets. Pickle at 4-5,000ft for safety.

[Funkyjazz]

Always assume that a column has some anti-air protection. Usually at the tail end. Make a high approach from their 3 or 9 for recon. If you have IR mavericks, scan the columns profile and look for the distinctive shape of the AAA vehicles. Kill them first then it’s a turkey shoot.

 

Strafe the convoy from their 6 to line them up nicely.

 

Btw. I recently started the A-10 campaign again as the F-15 was stressing me out too much and I was getting caught in my own frag blast. Low alt low bomb / strafe runs are inadvisable against armed targets. Pickle at 4-5,000ft for safety.

 

 

Well, i just finished the training mission 2 with the avenger canon and unguided rockets 3 times without being hit. I just had to open up my joystick again and sprayed loads of contact spray into the pots. It doenst spike anymore. That was good for the accuracy and...i was patient. Settled up at 10, ingressed with a 180 roll, aimed and allmost every shot with the unguided missiles hit their target. Like a Glove...

Now its time to move up to the unguided bombs. Dont know about you but...the A-10...so far its my favorate.

[coolts]

Nice and easy to fly. Easy to land. Looks mean. Only issue is that it’s pretty slow, which doesn’t inspire confidence whilst avoiding SAM's in the later campaign missions.

 

Good as a trainer though.

 

I too struggled with treetop ingress and attacks. The trouble is, down in the weeds you have precious little room to manouver to avoid SAMS, (see iron hands excellent A-10 SAM avoidance tutorial here , http://www.flankertraining.com/ironhand/a2g.htm, where he rarely flies under 4,000ft to allow for his split-s evasion manouver).

 

ps. I used the pot cleaner on my 2nd hand Cougar. Good as new now.

Edited February 18, 2010 by coolts

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Here is my standard (cut and paste) ground attack spiel that I've built up over the years.........

 

Aquiring and re-aquiring targets

 

I always advise folks new to ground attack to just stooge around the map for an hour or two, try following a railway or road and attacking a bridge or the stationary wagons at a train station. Develop the skill of finding the target then finding it AGAIN for a 2nd pass.

 

Look for distinguishing landmarks - a TV mast, smoking chimney, road junction, bridge, etc. Use your compass and figure out in your head a rough direction and distance of your target from the landmark (eg. 1km South of the chimney, or maybe the second wheatfield West of the railway bridge, etc). If the defenses permit, before you roll into the first pass, try to take a moment to build a picture in your head of what the target and its surroundings look like. This will help you find the targets for your 2nd pass, remember there are no prizes for doing the mission as fast as you can!!

 

Take note of your compass heading as you attack, helps you figure out which heading you need to get back to the target for the 2nd pass. If you attack from an easy direction 90 degrees, 180 degrees, 270 degrees, etc, then it is easier to do the Math in your head to figure out your course to return to the target.

 

Instead of a horizontal turn, you can try reversing your course vertically - either climb to a safe altitude to be able to do a Split-S back toward the target, or gain enough speed and pull up into an Immelman. Turning vertically can help ensure you don't lose the target by ending up on a course parallel to the original that is a mile or two to the side.

 

Sadly you can't add waypoints "on the fly", but many missions are designed with a waypoint (often made an attack waypoint that shows on the ME (Mission Editor) map as a triangle) a couple of Nm before the target. You can always go back to that waypoint (you would have to remember/write down before you start the mission which number waypoint it is), press 1 to get back to NAV mode. Press the \ key to swap between the waypoints (might be a different key on your country's keyboard).

 

An alternative method is, straight after you complete an attack run, if you have at least one bomb left then point your target pipper at or near the targets and press TAB, that will turn the pipper into a small square and hold that position until you drop another bomb. It even seems to hold it if you execute an attack with anything other than a bomb, or change to air to air mode, Nav mode etc. As long as you then change back to ground attack mode with bombs, the marker will still be there.

 

Another thing to try is to take one pod of LAU-61WP smoke rockets, fire at the target and you will get a plume of white smoke that'll burn for a few minutes that will help you find the target again. In Russian jets use the B-20CM smoke rockets, they give an orange colour smoke.

 

Vehicle fires go out after a short while, so you might bomb a nearby building or bridge (that will burn forever) and that will help you re-find the target.

 

 

Staying alive

 

A skill you should try to acquire is to recognise AA threats in your Mav TV screen. Look at outlines of threats like Shilka,Strela,Osa in the Encyclopedia. Put them in your own training mission and lock it up with both types of Mav. Learn to recognise the distinguishing features, eg Shilka - radar dish sticks up and is lighter colour, chassis looks lower and "fatter" than other vehicles. Now hide an AA threat in middle of a convoy. Lock a Mav on the front of the convoy, do a quick check down the convoy of each vehicles outline, count down till you find the AA threat (eg. 3rd vehicle) break off (cos' you're probably getting danger close! ) circle and reengage the threat.

 

The other thing that some folks suffer from in Lockon missions is the "full speed ahead and kill 'em all" mentality. Make sure you read your mission briefing and only kill your assigned targets (and any immediate SAM/AAA threats). Often assigned targets are diamonded by the mission designer, but not always.

If there are a2a threats, remember you are in an A-10. Act like a real A-10 pilot would - run away and hide. Likely there will be friendly fighters assigned to deal with the a2a threat, so let them. This may involve you applying some thought, deviating from your assigned course and speed, allowing the friendlies to get in there first and sanitize the area so you can then go to work. If you want to shoot down MiG's, choose an F-15 mission!

 

Don't assume that the best way to use the A-10 is to always be flying at 20ft with your butt dragging on the ground. This does limit your exposure to threats but equally limits your ability to see the threats in time to react. Often it is better to be well above the threat of Short range SAM/AAA (10,000+ feet above them) until you have picked them off.

 

Undefended target attack with bombs, then I'll fly a shallow dive attack, start at maybe 3,000ft, 300kts, I'll cut the throttle so I keep a constant speed in my shallow dive (that helps the aiming computer), make the attack, remembering to throttle up again on the egress.

 

If I am attacking a missile vehicle (like an Osa for example) which has roughly the same range as my IR Maverick, I might try and attack from 15,000 feet or even higher. Reason - My Mav is going downhill, the SAM uphill, after I launch, I reverse course and get out of the SAM envelope, sometimes before he can even fire at me, but if he has, its easy to outrun. Shilka's too are no threat when I am high with Mavericks.

You wouldn't do it in real life, but for a much bigger adrenalin rush try dive bombing these sorts of targets with dumb bombs from as high as you can fly.

 

 

 

Automatic multiple bomb release or "ripple".

 

Why do ground attack aircraft like the A-10 have an automatic system to drop a ripple of bombs, why not just let the pilot press the weapon release several times? To answer this question, you need to think about a real life target attack.

 

A single dumb bomb dropped from an aircraft does not drop perfectly down onto the target every time. It may drift left or right of the track that the aircraft is flying and miss the target. If the bomb is dropped a little early or a little late then it will miss short or long. The likelyhood of missing short or long is more than missing left/right.

 

Imagine an aircraft flying at 500 kts = 6078ft * 500 = 3039000 ft/hr. Divide by 60*60 gives ft/sec = approx 850.

If the pilot initiates bomb release 0.5s early or late he will likely miss by over 400ft.

 

So lets make our bomb "longer" by dropping a ripple of (eg) five bombs. If we know the lethal radius of the bomb blast is eg. 50ft, then if we drop them 100 feet apart, we have now a "longer bomb" with a lethal area of 100ft wide by 500ft long.

If we aim to land the middle (3rd) bomb of the stick of 5 on the target, then we have 250ft of leeway short and long and still destroy the target.

This deals effectively with the short / long problem, but we still might miss left / right.

If we are attacking a small point target like a jeep, then nothing we can do, but if our target is of significant dimensions like a bridge, we can increase our hit chances.

 

Suppose our bridge is 500 feet long and 50 feet wide. If we attack along the length of the bridge we might be lucky and all 5 bombs hit, or we might be unlucky and all miss left or right.

If we attack at 90 degress to the bridge then our bomb to bomb gap is 100 ft and the bridge 50ft wide, 50/50 chance of a hit.

If we attack at an angle of 30 degrees, the bridge "appears" to be 100ft wide and we are certain one bomb will hit provided we can put the ripple on target regarding short/long.

 

Of course a real buzz is attacking a long truck convoy with a ripple of Mk-82's and getting your attack speed and ripple settings just right to get a hit with every bomb.

 

 

The Mission Editor is your friend

 

I advise folks to use the Mission Editor to make a few of your own "practice missions" and steadily build up your ground attack pilot skills rather than jumping straight into it. Getting constantly killed when a noob gets kinda old and off putting.

In real life you would be given an approximate area in which the targets are located of a few square miles, with boundary lines to keep you away from other friendly forces (eg. keep West of the river, North of the railway, etc) so I usually set a waypoint near the general target area, eg about 5nm away and brief (myself) where the targets roughly are located.

 

I suggest starting with labels on, get used to attacking stationary targets (eg. a BTR-70 or two, they'll shoot back and keep you interested).

 

Then try moving targets on a road. Try attacks along the road from behind, from in front, then at 90 degrees to the road. Don't use Mk20 cluster weapons (too easy), get the feel for how much to aim ahead with guns,rockets,Mk82's. For fun, try a jeep going absolute full speed down a twisting road, not as easy as you think!

 

Simulate special forces laser designator assistance.

Next try "ground labels off" (press SHIFT-F9) but with a vehicle group designated as a target in the mission so you get the diamond marker on your HUD.

 

Simulate FAC assistance.

Next again "labels off", try a stationary vehicle group not set as a target in the mission for your plane. Instead have an AI A-10 with one pod only of LAU-61WP smoke rockets. Give it an attack waypoint with the group as its target, designate the attack as rockets (else it will destroy them itself with its gun). Now it will mark the target for you with smoke, you'll have about 5 mins to find the smoke. This simulates a FAC marking a target for you with WP smoke and calling you in by radio for the attack. The smoke doesn't have to be dead accurate, you could have it aimed at a co-ord rather than the group. If it is eg. 100m North-East of target, then you have more figuring out to do in your head to line up your attack.

 

Next set a few vehicles going cross country (so they throw up some dust). Try and find them by looking for the dust.

 

Next set up a few SAU's firing at some target. Make the group consist of different types of gun(so they fire at differing times) Try to find them by spotting the puffs of smoke as they fire. Experiment with dusk/dawn, they can be a bit easier to see then. You could add in a Smersh or a Grad if you want They make much more smoke but only fire for 40sec / 20sec respectively and have a reload time of 15 mins or so. You'll need to switch weapon labels off as well (SHIFT-F6) or you'll see where the rockets are being fired from.

 

If that isn't hard enough, practise killing that one last truck with guns/rockets after you've taken damage and lost the HUD. Set 100% HUD failure. Try to guess a dive angle that looks about right, range that looks right and give it a go.

 

Repeat all above in poor conditions eg. just before dawn / just after dusk, in a thunderstorm / snowstorm or at night with illumination flares, etc, etc.....

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

Some more about the Mission Editor

 

What is the Diamond?

The diamond is your Target Designator. It simulates that some forward observer has pointed a laser at the object to designate it as a target. Imagine we have some forward troops or recon that is on the ground and has spotted our target. They put a laser on it, and then we see the diamond in the HUD because our A-10 carries the Pave Penny laser tracker. That's the idea anyhow.

 

Why is it there in some missions and not others?

If the mission designer has set up an ATTACK waypoint and used the TARGET button to mark a particular target(s), then you will see the diamond as soon as you change to air to ground mode (7). If the target is out of the field of view of the HUD it will have an X through it. If you kill the target and there are multiple targets are set up, the diamond moves to the next target, and finally dissapears when you have killed all the marked targets.

Some mission designers might only mark some or none of the targets you need to kill to get mission success, other targets may only be mentioned in the mission briefing.

If there are multiple targets in a mission, you can swap the diamond between them by pressing ' key (depends on your keyboard - anyway it is the same key that swaps airfields when you are in NAV - RETURN mode).

 

Be aware that if you set up some vehicles or ships in a group then the Mission Editor treats that group as a single item when you use TARGET button. Once you target it and then try to target another item in the group the mission editor will latch to nearest thing (usually a building) leaving you wondering what is going on. I still get caught out by this with ships as a group of them by default are quite spread out and they dont look like a group. I then try to target a second time and it targets a building a 100kms away!

 

When you have a group targeted then if you kill the 1st in the group, the diamond will move to the next in the group etc until all destroyed then moves to next TARGET'ed unit/group. If there are multiple targets in a mission, you can swap the diamond between them by pressing ' key (depends on your keyboard - anyway it is the same key that swaps airfields when you are in nav return mode). But remembering what I said earlier about a group of vehicles being regarded as one target, then if you had two groups designated as targets, it will swap between the 1st in each group. you can't move the diamond along the column of vehicles. Doesn't stop you bombing them, but the diamond will always point to 1st in the group.

This can be kinda confusing until you get used to it.

 

Is it necessary to lock on by pressing TAB?

All the diamond is doing is showing you where the target is located. You still have to attack it yourself with whatever weapon you choose. If you choose a Maverick then you have to lock it on, but if you use gun / rockets / dumb bombs, then obviously you dont.

 

What is the ATTACK point?

It is a type of waypoint, shown on the map as a triangle instead of the usual circle, in the Mission Editor(ME). As you fly your route it does not appear any different to other waypoints to you as a pilot. But used in conjunction with the TARGET button in the ME, it will cause targets to be diamond'ed. If the aircraft is an AI(computer flown) one, then it tells the AI when to begin an attack and what to attack.

 

Do you have to reach a particular waypoint before you can lock on?

No, but generally the mission designer will have chosen a particular waypoint (near to the target) as an attack waypoint. Some missions might have several attack waypoints if there are several targets. Before you fly a mission, look at the map, remember which waypoint is the attack waypoint (triangle) so you know where to start looking for the targets you are tasked to destroy.

You might find there are enemy SAM/AAA defenses or enemy aircraft you have to kill simply to be able to get through to your actual mission target, keep your eyes and ears open for threats - the RWR (Radar warning receiver) can help.

In one of the A-10 training missions there is the diamond to show you where to drop your weapon load but in the other using cannon and rockets there is no diamond. As I said above, sometimes the mission has been designed so there is a diamond, sometimes not.

 

Is there a difference between targets and mission goals?

The SUCCESS / FAIL at the end of a mission is caused by having used the Mission editor to set MISSION GOALS with the icon on the left of the screen that looks like a sniper sight. Also not all goals are that some target be DESTROYED, some goals are that a unit, group or target SURVIVES, this enables misson designers to make missions where you have to protect friendly units or defend a base.

Having these as seperate actions means that a mission can have SUCCESS/FAIL goals set without necessarily having targets diamond'ed. Two examples - mbot's recent UrbanThunder which has an attack waypoint, but no TARGETs assigned

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=9039

 

also my Smerch Hunt mission, which has no attack waypoint at all...

 

http://www.lockonfiles.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&cid=61&lid=36&ttitle=A-10_Smerch_Hunt#dldetails

 

 

 

More information about Ground Attack.

Read these great articles from SimHQ, you can click on the pictures for bigger readable size

 

Bombs

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_101a.html

 

Mavericks,Rockets and Guns

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_098a.html

 

Hope this info helps.....

[Funkyjazz]

You're hardcore Brit radar dude! Thanks for the info. Its gonna help me a lot.

[coolts]

CGTharos is quite right. Read the excellent, “Warthog: Flying the A-10 in the Gulf War”. Once deployed to Iraq, the pilots soon abandoned their “down in the weeds” training tactics for medium altitude sorties only going in with guns once out of mavericks and once they were sure AA threats were taken out.

The low approach seems to have been advocated for radar avoidance of the perceived threat from the Iraqi air force which didn’t really materialise.

[Mugenjin]

i thought this was about anti aircraft artillery :P