SU-25T Handling query

[coolts]

Guys

 

I am just dipping my toe in the strange and unknown waters of Russian planes in FC. Namely the SU-25T as this was the whole point of the Flaming Cliffs expansion, (advanced FM, etc).

 

Now, having come from an A-10 A-G background, this is quite challenging, especially with the metric HUD and Cyrillic cockpit. I have two queries, so please forgive me if this info is squirreled away on the forums already but as my granddad use to say, “a shy lad gets nowt”;

 

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This plane flies like a double decker bus carrying obese gorillas to a pie shop!:chef: I know it has the advanced FM and the ‘T’ is heavier than the vanilla model, but is this right? If so, god help me when DCS: A-10 comes out! Are there any ‘top tips’ to Frogfoot flying? (I am going through the great BeachAV8R tutorials on SimHQ)

 

·

I have the FC printed manual, but want aircraft performance data. Not the ceiling, max payload stuff, etc., I mean the takeoff / landing speeds, best climb rate, corner speed, etc. If I remember from my civilian FS days, this used to be on the kneeboard. The manual goes into great detail re: ordnance data but omits this stuff.

I’m not one to give in easily, and once I’ve got my HOTAS up to speed with all the extra SHKVAL / autopilot controls, (and the mental RWR), I will hopefully manage to blow something up that is actually shooting back!

 

 

Увидимся в небе ! (Я думаю?)

 

 

Ps. One more note for ED really, if it’s not too late. Please add more procedures to the FC2.0 manual. The printed DCS manual was great but again, was short in the procedure dept. I don’t want to bang on about the old Falcon manuals but……sometimes, when learning, a few; “do this then this” steps really help out.

[159th_Viper]

....This plane flies like a double decker bus carrying obese gorillas to a pie shop!:chef: I know it has the advanced FM and the ‘T’ is heavier than the vanilla model, but is this right?.....

 

Nope, not Correct at all - Cannot do this in a Double-Decker on the way to the Pie-Shop :D

 

 

 

Seriously, the T-Toad performs admirably......As with the Kamov, it just takes a wee bit of time to Master. Start out with a Clean loadout and just Fly and get to know the Bird.

 

Insofar as Take-Off/Landing Speed is concerned, approx 280-290km/h will do fine. Climb Rate of 15m/s get you to where you need to be, dependant on circumstances. RTB at 950-1000Km/h, Corner Speed - again, dependant on Weight, ie Load-Out/Fuel/Ordinance-Drag etc etc....Practice!

 

If you're into specifics, let me know and I'll send you a Track to aid: Found that it's always easier to Learn the See-Do way than the Written Word.

[coolts]

Cheers mate. I will try a loop tonight!!

 

I reckon you had a special "red bull air race" version of the SU-25T made up for that. Or maybe you climbed to 20,000, dove at 90, turned smoke on them did that loop, (or would your wings have come off?).

 

As for the KA-50, its sitting in disgrace atm as i CANT TRIM THE BUGGER NO MATTER WHAT I DO**. Had it licked on my old Saitek Evo Force but with my Cougar? pffft. no matter what profile i use, "click trim, release, wobble,pitch, repeat, crash".*

 

Bah!:joystick:

 

 

* to badly quote the shamen i have "i have watched, watched, watched every video, i have read, read, read every post"

Edited March 1, 2010 by coolts

[Boberro]

If you carefully drive brick you will reach up to 10-12 km of altitude :D

[GGTharos]

Strange, I trim just fine with the cougar - it'll just require some practice I guess.

 

As for the FM - yes, you'll see DCS aircraft handle more like the 25/25T than like in LO. Piloting takes skill and patience, though obviously fighters will be much snappier.

[coolts]

12km? Thats like being in space to an A-10 flyer! :pilotfly::pilotfly:

 

[EtherealN]

One more thing that will be new with DCS:Warthog then - the A10C Precision Engagement upgrade inlcudes delivery of LGB's and JDAMs from 30k feet. ;)

 

I'll try out a loop right now and let you know some rough parameters. :)

[coolts]

I use this profile for BS & Cougar

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=33583

 

Having the control axis view open in flight, I click to trim, (I can hear the in-game 'click'), and release the stick. The virtual stick returns to centre in the viewer when it should stay put. It must be a glitch as I was getting pretty good with the Evo, (cable ties for springs, etc).

 

Anyway, I have hi-jacked my own thread here! :doh:

[Boberro]

12km? Thats like being in space to an A-10 flyer! :pilotfly::pilotfly:

 

 

Hog can fly at 42 000 too (and above) ;]

[coolts]

One more thing that will be new with DCS:Warthog then - the A10C Precision Engagement upgrade inlcudes delivery of LGB's and JDAMs from 30k feet. ;)

 

I'll try out a loop right now and let you know some rough parameters. :)

 

how long will it take to get up there (30k)? You might have to take a shaver and a copy of "war and peace".

[GGTharos]

About 10 min. Just maintain the correct climb speed (185kts) and full throttle.

 

This is with 6000lbs fuel, 2 AGM-65D and 6 Mk20's, which is a slightly heavier payload than usual (4Mk20's is more the norm) and of course ECM and 9's.

 

It'll take longer with full fuel, obviously.

 

If you take 4Mk82's instead of the Mk20's, then you can take full fuel and it'll be the same weight as my configuration.

Edited March 1, 2010 by GGTharos

[EtherealN]

I just performed a loop in the T-toad btw. Took off with no ordnance (two smoke pods) and half fuel, climbed to ~900 meters, leveled off and accelerated to ~750km/h IAS. Initiated the loop at 911 meters AGL and, maintaining an alpha of roughly 15 degrees, leveled off after the completed loop at 922 meters AGL.

 

Tried it again with a fully loaded, fully fueled T-Toad (100% Mtow), and had to initiate at 650 km/h IAS (got shudders around there) and didn't quite manage to maintain energy throughout the maneuver (stalled while inverted). Was close tho, so a bit of practice might make it possible - not that it's all that useful. :P

 

Basically, it's all a matter of how much you carrying. The T-Toad is a bomb truck, so while loaded it's not really meant to be the most jumpy aerobat - but simply through being made to carry an awesome load of bombs it'll be quite happy once you've burned some of the fuel and ditched your weapons. 1000km/h IAS is nice for a bomb truck. :)

Edited March 1, 2010 by EtherealN

[coolts]

About 10 min. Just maintain the correct climb speed (185kts) and full throttle.

 

This is with 6000lbs fuel, 2 AGM-65D and 6 Mk20's, which is a slightly heavier payload than usual (4Mk20's is more the norm) and of course ECM and 9's.

 

It'll take longer with full fuel, obviously.

 

If you take 4Mk82's instead of the Mk20's, then you can take full fuel and it'll be the same weight as my configuration.

 

SOLD: One advance copy of DCS:A-10

[159th_Viper]

....I reckon you had a special "red bull air race" version of the SU-25T made up for that. Or maybe you climbed to 20,000, dove at 90, turned smoke on them did that loop, (or would your wings have come off?).......

 

Lol No :lol:

 

Here's a Quick Track captured from the Quick-Start Mission. I jettison the Ordinance except for the R-73's and turn to Majkop in RTB Config. As illustrated, easily accelerate to 920km/h+ without a Dive and then relatively Straight-Forward to Loop the Toad.

 

On RTB to Majkop the threshold is Crossed at 1000km/h at approx 150mAGL with the Run-In and Break Landing, again illustrating that the Toad is No Slouch :)

 

Beware - Once you get to know the Toad there's No Turning Back......You're Addicted :D

 

 

Run-In and Break

[EtherealN]

Beware - Once you get to know the Toad there's No Turning Back......You're Addicted :D

 

Only one failure so far - GG. :P

[159th_Viper]

Only one failure so far - GG. :P

 

Don't believe it!

 

He's a Closet-Toad :P

[GGTharos]

I love toads. In my sights. :D

[Ramstein]

I have been practicing with the SU-25T and also found it to fly like you described. Not easy to fly stabile..

 

I found if I fly it fast, or the faster the better, it flies much better. If I try to fly it slow, or with less than 80 perecent power, it feel like it will fall over in a stall... and it wanders all over the place..

 

so, I suppose it must be flown close to ful speed for the best stability. Especially while loaded for bear..

 

alos, maybe keep some flaps down for more stability?

 

IMHO

[GGTharos]

You definitely don't want to be flying it anywhere near full power, nor with flaps down if you actually plan on getting anywhere. Just learn to fly. All planes are pigs when you overload them.

 

And incidentally, if you're 'loaded for bear' plane doesn't handle in a way you like, guess what? Reduce the amount of stuff you're putting on it, it'll handle much better.

[Boberro]

I love toads. In my sights. :D

 

Your mind places them in sights cos in subconscious you scare them and their power ;]

[EtherealN]

Well Rammstein, remember that when you're flying it loaded you are not only adding a huge amount of weight - you are also adding a fantastic amount of parasitic drag. So basically, if you expect to need to maneuver really violently, don't load it quite as heavily. ;)

 

I love toads. In my sights. :D

 

Well, the toad has one advantage - it improves my odds of getting to splash you. At least compared with the Shark. :D

[GGTharos]

Ok, I have to concede this one :D

[Maximus]

Strange, I trim just fine with the cougar - it'll just require some practice I guess.

 

yes takes alot of practice to fly a Ka50.

[Ramstein]

Well Rammstein, remember that when you're flying it loaded you are not only adding a huge amount of weight - you are also adding a fantastic amount of parasitic drag. So basically, if you expect to need to maneuver really violently, don't load it quite as heavily. ;)

 

 

 

Well, the toad has one advantage - it improves my odds of getting to splash you. At least compared with the Shark. :D

 

... it's Ramstein.. :music_whistling:

and if you fly the A10, it flies pretty good,.. load or no load...

 

just saying...

:joystick:

[GGTharos]

AFM vs. SFM. You'll find it flies a bit more like the Su-25 in the DCS module.