my first very quick impressions of FC2

[Squid]

hmmm strange, but i was hit with negative points right away ...

 

1. not clear installation information on

a. if its standalone or what Lockon editions you need to install first

b. if it has to be installed on same folder as Lockon or separate

 

2. after figuring out installation, i had all sorts of crashes (which is VERY rare for me, i rarely have issues with things i install) and it is on a Lockon virgin win7 64 machine

3. Graphics wise it looks like its not understanding (actually ignoring) my HD5850 settings, tons of shimmering everywhere i look, and funky artifacts like moving moire patterns around and dancing shadows, flashing canopies still here from old Lockon, full shadows ugly not making sense in their brutal chainsaw form, very low res ground textures mixed with high res textures as if ground level of detail process being messed up or unable to find the proper hi res textures, lots of tearing up and stutters, beautiful haze of previous versions absent, not in options either, overall feel of environment littleless realistic than before so far, not sure why ... more saturated overall green hue? not sure yet. Big variation in the quality of models, from very low polycount old ones to very high extremely detailed ones, little bothersome inconsistency nowdays

 

4. missing 3D model from encyclopedia .... (prefer it, for quick checking of modifications too)

5. 3d models missing also from loadouts .... same as above ... replaced with SF style loadout interface

6. training missions, none, just empty screen, only mediocre res youtube videos, for the moment at least. Not good.

 

 

This is the first time since the very first demo of Lockon ever launched that i felt not happy by the experience from an ED product. I hope i was just only tired and in a bad grumpy mood LOL

 

 

:: i7 860

:: 6gb DDR3 1600

:: 1680x1050

Edited March 31, 2010 by Squid

[Pilotasso]

Hi, sorry for your troubles. About Fc2 instalation it is standalone but it checks for LOMAC 1.12 so that it will install only if its present, however they are both seperate programs.

 

About your graphics, its weird, I think it might have something to do with catalist AI, I have windows 7 64 bit and LOMAC 1.12 and it all runs smoothly for me.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Squid_DK]

Actually it just checks for LOMAC 1.0 that was all I had installed. You don't need to install it to the same directory as lock On and you can uninstall Lock On afterwards (I did).

 

Mine is running super smooth at max graphics and at a resolution of 1920x1080 Catalyst 10.2 no issues or crashes.

 

Staffan

[Pilotasso]

rgr, stand corrected, I installed to the lates LOMAC patch in the hopes I would be still playing it while I wait a solution to purchase a FC2 key.

[Squid]

maxed out settings are out of the question here ... especially with the ground objects detail level ....

 

Pilotasso how you run FC2 without a key?

[Pilotasso]

see the thread about limited card choice for the E shop, you just posted there.

[Kaptein_Damli]

I believe training mission was taken off because of size prior to the online release. Boxed version will contain those videos. I think you can download these videos somewhere other than YouTube, just forgot where at the moment. Although I disagree with you on your first impressions. I only agree on the installation info. I had in fact to remove a registry entry to be able to install in the first place. A clever forummember sorted that out! I think the ground looks better than v.1.12, with floating rivers, higher res up high. I also liked the nearly 6DOF and the better FM. I do homever hope for better 3D models like the Sim Mods A-10 and others in the future.

[Squid]

I'd personally want the usual loadable / controllable training missions together with the videos. And the 3D encyclopedia and 3D loadout / skin selection (?) back ...

[Squid]

it looks as either or both changes in game settings and in ATI Control Panel are not affecting anything

[Distiler]

-With nvidia, the shimmering is corrected by forcing vertical sync (optional triple buffering) and filtering-negative LOD bias in clamp (vs allow). Don't know Ati control panel, but you might want to check for similar options.

 

-Vertical bands are a limitation of the engine (lockon, dcs too) but can be somewhat corrected by a mod (search in the forum).

 

-The 3d lacking in the UI is, as far asI know, because it doesen't have direct3d implemented (yet). Not a big deal generally speaking, except in the editor map.

 

-[Guessing mode on] Training missions got broken during beta (a new version and any track got de-syncronized, same as when you go from Lockon to Lockon Flamming Cliffs or even pacth upgrades), it seems they are re-doing them but I'm not sure about this. For DCS:A-10C it seems ED is working in a totally different system.

 

-It takes into account your driver settings, if it's not, re-check everything. It works for everyone I think.

 

Now, focus on the bright side that's way ampler that some of the shortcomings.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Distiler

[Squid]

the shadows (?) on the antonov screen over the hills are also flickering and moving strangely

 

 

And what is this complication with Controls settings ? cant figure nada there ..... do i have to know the code of every axes and button of my CH set ??? .... no axes buttons detection ? how are assigned ??

[Squid]

first time i install lock on in this system. any other game works ok. Ati control panel settings for shimmering and v sync are accordingly tweaked, no effect . its even funny i force vsync yet i get huge full screen tearups and waving ...

 

 

10.2 cats

[Distiler]

yeah well, cool down and everything will work. It always happen this way (fortunatelly!)

Edited March 30, 2010 by Distiler

[Squid]

Thanks Distiler for the support ( i hope not the acrobat distiler LOL ) LOL .

 

Gosh i just hate those graphics glitches, and i have no clue whats causing them .... Thats not how a 2010 sim product from a team like ED and on a hardware like mine should look. I dont think i am getting particularly grumpy, LockOn has been a fetisch since the first advertising screenshots included in my Flanker 2 box ... This looks though like a beta and the situation reminds me of those days with GF3 and the first Lockon beta, and frustration about the FPS , and then upgrade after upgrade in the hopes of at some point manage to have a totally smooth experience of LockOn with maxed graphics etc (complete opposite experience of Wings Of Prey ..... no matter what settings , either from game or ATi Contro panel, framerates are crazy smooth, graphics eye orgasmic)

 

 

So after wasting another evening experimenting some observations :

 

1. Shimmering is mostly controlled by the AA method, SuperSample seems to be the only effective way to go, even with an AA settings as low as 2x ['Box'].

 

2. The vertical dancing banding on the horizon (mountains) is probably related to the clouds shadows. No clouds, no banding .... this would had been nice to be fixed by now, 2010 after a BS and a FC2 release

 

3. changing water quality, shadows level (except Full), texture resolution, doesnt seem to have any change at all visually, textures, shadows, water, appear the same on all ocassions. choosing Active planer i thought it would disable clouds casting shadows. Normal water i thought would remove clouds reflecting on water.

 

4. Tearing up / waving, doesn't seem to be affected by anything no matter the VSync settings in the ATi panel

 

5. Low res textures mixed with high res textures havent found a way to control yet. Surelly none of the ATi panel settings changed anything about this. Not even experimenting with mipmap changed that.

 

I have uninstalled completely 10.2 Cats i had a day before and installed 10.3

 

 

 

.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Squid

[Squid]

notice on the Eagle screens, how abnormaly some textures stay on very high resolution while surrounding areas are on very low resolution (when i guess both should had been something in-between and not stand out from eachother).

 

On the Eagle cockpit screen: tons of strange vertical banding dancing outwards left and right and inwards or from left to right and vice versa, thickening and shortening, continuously ....

 

Oh, another usual sight, missing pit. And (clouds shadow?) banding overhead in all its glory

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

ATi owners: Are any of these apparent to your FC2 too ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Squid

[71st_Mastiff]

just so you know; you do know that the game uses all most all cpu for engine and graphics.. So not much eye candy is controlled by the video card? I may be wrong but I believe thats the way it is..?

[Squid]

1. isnt the numbpad dot the key to enable view lock on a target? how do we unlock the view after? and what exactly is it targeting on? ( most often is choosing some random spots on the ground here)

 

2. is A-10 gunfire behaving in reality as in FC2? no impact effects (i thought there is lot of dust and debris where the rounds hit) and the rounds just bounce off (??) as if they are made of steel and the ground is made of steel too ... The effect of emptying a whole drum accurately on a T-72 from close distance was to have to blow it with a second maverick pass .

 

 

 

.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Squid

[GGTharos]

The AP round simulation model right now does not take into account different types of rounds, so yeah, they bounce.

[Squid]

notice the difference in texture resolutions in neighboring ground textures

[Distiler]

But bullets really bounce in real life, just not all of them(and either all of them are tracers).

 

Those screenshots are really awful, I can assure you it's not like this (in my nvidia 9600). Keep trying driver versions and changing panel control options until you find the sweet spot, Ati cards are really tricky.

 

BTW, Ati drivers and control panel have sucked always, and if nothing changes will continue to suck. I would be pounding Ati forum if I were in your case. It's not just DCS/FC2, it has been for years with many games.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Distiler

[A.S]

rubbish:

 

shimmering has only to do with (nvdia) if you select preset perfromance on

HIGH QUALITY or not ...

 

then all rest you need is a healty amount of Anisop F (4x) ..and a good AA (i use 8xQ)

 

v-snyc and tripple and trilinear and and and <<< rubbish

[71st_Mastiff]

set nvidia setting for that supersampling to multisampling and from addaptive to performance.

 

 

notice on the Eagle screens, how abnormaly some textures stay on very high resolution while surrounding areas are on very low resolution (when i guess both should had been something in-between and not stand out from eachother).

 

On the Eagle cockpit screen: tons of strange vertical banding dancing outwards left and right and inwards or from left to right and vice versa, thickening and shortening, continuously ....

 

Oh, another usual sight, missing pit. And (clouds shadow?) banding overhead in all its glory

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

ATi owners: Are any of these apparent to your FC2 too ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

.

[Squid]

Thats indeed how it is with nvidia. Negative clamp allow, High quality preset (AI settings is the similar in ATi. optimizations related) etc

 

I was nvidia for many years till this card. The settings and behavior are different here. I just posted the results of my experiments. The only setting that took care of the shimmering in FC2 from my ATi control panel (i havent tried third party editors like RivaTuner) was changing AA method to SuperSample.

 

Vsync always worked in nvidia with tear-ups / waving. Here it doesnt do anything, like its not being read. Then again, i only have those with FC2 here

[BirdDogICT]

notice on the Eagle screens, how abnormaly some textures stay on very high resolution while surrounding areas are on very low resolution (when i guess both should had been something in-between and not stand out from eachother).

 

On the Eagle cockpit screen: tons of strange vertical banding dancing outwards left and right and inwards or from left to right and vice versa, thickening and shortening, continuously ....

 

Oh, another usual sight, missing pit. And (clouds shadow?) banding overhead in all its glory

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

ATi owners: Are any of these apparent to your FC2 too ?

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

.

Squid,

 

The only way I could fix the banding on the horizon was with the "No Cloud Shadows" mod for DCS:BS (find it at LockOn Files)

 

The strange missing textures in the cockpit and variety of textures in the landscape is due to Adaptive Multi-Sample AA. You'll need to use Multi-Sample AA (doesn't look great) or Super-Sample AA (looks the best, but eats up frame rate). This hasn't really changed much from FC 1.12b.

 

Tearing can be fixed through VSync with OpenGL Triple Buffering, but these settings in ATI Catalyst don't work in some versions of DirectX without a third party program. I've had good luck with D3DOverrider (it comes bundled with RivaTuner, but there's standalone version...just google D3DOverrider to find it). ATI Tools also works.

 

BTW, I'm running with a ATI 5770, Catalyst 10.3, and am getting good performance with the following settings:

 

2X (Box) AA

4X AF

Catalyst AI on Advanced (optional, can't tell that it makes a difference)

Mipmap Detail Level on Quality

Wait for Vertical Refresh Always On

Supersample AA

OpenGL Triple Buffer On

D3DOverrider running in the background.

 

Of course, your mileage may vary...

Edited April 1, 2010 by BirdDogICT

[Squid]

Thanks birdDog, thats a good post .. at last some ... tactical awareness lol

i think if i have to keep on trying with ED i probably have to switch back to nvidia .........

The settings i came up with so far are close to yours

 

- AA 2x or 4X [box]

- AF 8x

- AA method SuperSample (definitely)

- AI is kind of similar to Nvidia optimizations ("High Quality, Performance", etc presets) disabled only makes fps a little slower without any visual improvements, i think so far "Standard" works the best, will have to experiment a little more to be sure.

- Mipmap on Quality

- Vsync always on

- OpenGL i didnt even bother touch, didnt think it can affect DX games, will check your suggestion

 

 

Thanks again BirdDog :)

 

 

 

.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Squid