Basic Training Please

[K-Nadian87]

Hey all,

 

I've just begun the A10 campaign and im new to the game so im struggling with controls and tactics. If im too high, i get pegged by SAMs, too low, get chewed up by AAA... can someone point me in the direction of 2 things:

 

1) Some sort of training for combat which is more helpful than the manual and training videos (which I found were not very helpful).

 

2) Perhaps a downloadable "shooting range" style mission so i can practice outside of campaigns.

 

 

Thanks!

[winz]

There is a shooting range style mission in the missions.

[hassata]

Also, possibly try flying 15k-10k feet, plan routes around known sam sites, eject flares in danger areas even if you don't catch a launch (e.g. in attack run and egress).

[K-Nadian87]

hassata, is that 1000-1500 feet, or do you mean 15000? sorry, ive been playing with metric readings lol.

[topdog]

15000 - if you imagine the SAM engagement range to be a sphere (actually a hemi-sphere since they can't shoot through/under ground) you'll see they have less coverage and range to get you the higher from them you are. At this height pretty much all ground defenses are reduced to very limited threat capabililities.

 

Thus allowing you to get closer to their engagement range, create some tease opportunities for them to give away their positions firing at you even, whilst you still have some wiggle room to fly out from with more comfort, and so on.

 

At least this was the way in FC1, if you went high enough, you could even 'loft bomb' right over the top of them whilst being out of range of their missiles, but this isn't much challenge (I only used to do this if SEAD abysmally failed and I was too lazy to fly back, land, and restart mission, to finish their job for them before getting on with mine).

 

Take a look for a program called Tacview (search the forums here) that can help show you after your flight a better picture of the overall threats (perceived and real), though if you want to do multiplayer/online flying you'll need to know how to enable/disable it as it makes some changes to configuration files that are disallowed in many online servers.

 

You'll also find sometimes that the perceived threat of someone firing on you can more easily be taken out or dumbed down a lot, if you can identify the radars that are feeding them with intel on you that may not have any firing capabilities of their own. So the real threat to you (and to be taken out, probably at your longer range of attack) is the non-firing radar. Then you can get in closer and more personal with some of the others.

Edited August 1, 2010 by topdog

[onehitxzibit]

hassata, is that 1000-1500 feet, or do you mean 15000? sorry, ive been playing with metric readings lol.

15k = 15000 ;)

[topdog]

Demonstration of playing back an ACMI recording in Tacview.

 

I picked an old mission of mine at random here. Pay no attention to the fact I'm in the middle of it all and inside the SAM's firing ranges far earlier than I should be :D

 

 

Here I should have let SEAD do its job before I flew in. This itself can be a problem, if you fly at max speed through your waypoints too fast without paying attention to what other units in your mission need to accomplish. But you can also see the risks they take (look at where the tornados are flying to launch their missiles from, could they pick a more life-threatening launch position?) and why they sometimes needlessly fail in their job.

 

 

Now without the radar helping them, the SA-13's on its own as a significantly decreased threat - even if in this flight I'm still ridiculously deep into his firing range because he's too busy at the moment swatting the tornados to pay attention to me :D

 

Hindsight is 20/20.. :D

[K-Nadian87]

hey thanks guys, thats great info. Thats the kinda stuff that makes me glad this forum is here. I would have never heard of Tacview on my own.

 

how will i find the nonfiring radar from a good enough distance to stay safe? I find that using my AGMs is difficult at long range because i cant make out my target on the TV... i end up hitting the wrong vehicle.

 

any other noteworthy places I should check out regarding sam + aaa evasion?

[K-Nadian87]

BTW, im flying the A-10 as of now... havent had a chance to use SEAD.... is it available for the A-10?

[71st_Mastiff]

Ah unfortunatly no. unless you want to hang out and try and fire a rifle at those:noexpression: SAMs. and dump and Music on like a madman. This So called sim is only

for Eastern block planes were lucky to have one F15 and one A10, as you can see theres mostly Russian A/C. you can sead in a Su27 and a SU33, and a Mig 29S, Su25t especially has a

long range weapon.

 

BTW, im flying the A-10 as of now... havent had a chance to use SEAD.... is it available for the A-10?

Edited August 1, 2010 by Mastiff

[GGTharos]

No, the A-10 is not a SEAD aircraft, though it could potentially go after some types of SHORAD if necessary.

[K-Nadian87]

best SAM evasion techniques with A10 would be what then? Flight manual says stay below 3000 or something and you should avoid radar lock, but at that height im no match for AAA.

[nomdeplume]

It depends on the threat profile. Flying low puts you at more risk from ground fire and IR SAMs, however you can counter that by a) being observant b) always knowing where the danger areas are and having an ingress and egress plan c) spamming flares when entering areas with IR threats and d) being in a flying tank.

 

Flying high (at least 12-13k, but better 15k+) puts you out of reach of most IR-SAMs and small-arms fire, however potentially makes you an easy target for SAMs. So, check the intel before you go and watch the RWR during the mission to see what's out there and adjust your tactics accordingly. I mean, it's pretty obvious you cannot fly at high altitude within a hostile SAM's engagement radius and expect to survive.

 

I think the A-10 was originally envisioned to fly low, like an attack helicopter; however that was for the Russian tank-busting role where higher altitudes would be very dangerous. In areas like Afghanistan, where there aren't really any high-altitude threats, even attack helos tend to fly high (I know the Brits do that, not sure if the US does) because it's safer up there than down low.

 

Generally in the campaign I found it best to stay low, as the action is usually taking place well within the engagement radius of an enemy SAM and SEAD flights only seem to be tasked if there's SAMs directly within your target area (e.g. some Tunguska in later missions). Very often I found myself using the terrain to mask myself from the SAM site. At this point you're simply flying as high as you can without being picked up by the air defence radar.

 

Another tip is to just make sure you have an escape route. If there's hills you can hide behind, then you can fly higher and risk being shot at by the SAM so long as you're prepared to hit the deck to lose the missile. The SAMs won't always engage you right away, so you may be able to make a pass at higher-altitude in this manner. Just be very aware of where it's safe for you to go low - no point ducking down behind a hill to avoid a SAM if there's MANPADS or Strelas down there. (Mind you, you arguably have a better chance of evading an IR missile than a radar-guided SAM; but it's still not a choice you want to be making.)

 

But mostly: take your time to observe the area before you make your attack run. Once you know where the threats are, you can either avoid them, be taking evasive action by the time you get to them, or take them out first. Obviously Mavericks can be used to eliminate the AAA that's defending your targets, but you can also engage all types of AAA with your cannon and/or rockets, if you want to save the Mavs.

[topdog]

When I was referring to SEAD, it's a task assigned to some other flights (like the Tornados) in your mission to help you -- so don't get in front of them, but if they get shot down, then sometimes I'd "cheat" by pretending to finish their task since the AI can be manipulated a bit.

 

Been a while since I flew the A10 (campaign) now, but from what I remember.. Flying low, 2000-4000, is good generally for winging through the waypoints to get to your target areas, it'll help avoid some large SAM sites to your sides due to terrain mask effects (as will staying on the waypoint path and not drifting off it as sometimes they're tight with danger on both sides).

 

When actually at the fight area I would survey at 8000-12000 so that if shot at unexpectedly, I could turn-dive-turn-climb to evade. You need height on your side to do that and since the A10 isn't all that fast, if you have to do it a couple of times quickly, you don't want to be too near to the ground else it starts to take your evasive options away.

 

Around 9000-8000 or so down to 4000 on a run was good for releasing ordnance. Whether evading or going in for a run, it was common to climb back out to a decent altitude (8000+) again shortly after.

 

All varies a bit depending on the exact targets you face and what ordnance you have remaining to deal with them, but it was usually around these kind of starting values.

Edited August 2, 2010 by topdog

[RipKirby]

you want to watch these videos :)

[shu77]

I was going to suggest installing TACVIEW, its great for getting an idea of whats shooting at you and what you are doing to be inside its engagement zone, and whats happening around you. In FC1 there was a ship attack mission I couldn't get the hang of until I watched the TAC view and realized there was a flight of Tornado's behind me on a SEAD profile that were nailing all the SAM sites about 30 seconds after they got me because I was cutting across a waypoint too early.

 

Not suggesting you use it to pick a path around the sites, but when you are starting out it makes a big difference towards understanding the war zone.