Omega Oska Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I know there are some real fighter pilots here. I am curious to know what are the usual rules of engagement, in US or in general. We often heard something like "do not fire until fired upon" in Hollywood, is this true? I think this is pretty risky since being shot at in the first place is already close to getting killed.
D-Scythe Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Well, it's not quite as simple as that. Sure, in some situations, fighter pilots are forced to wait until they are fired upon before they can react, but the whole thing is really more dynamic than that. For example, in war, the airspace is divided into sections and corridors, each with its own set of ROEs (e.g. an area deeper into enemy airspace may have more lenient ROE). Depending on the type of aircraft, the ROE may also be different - F-15C pilots in Desert Storm, for example, did not require AWACs approval to shoot a missile because of its strong on-board electronic ID systems, while other platforms were far more restricted. For example, I know of one instance where a flight of F-14s were denied kills on a Fishbed flight because the closest AWACs could not pick up their targets in all the clutter, and could therefore not clear them. There are other factors: altitude of target (there are "friendly" altitudes), speed, its general behaviour, etc. Because of the complexity of it all, most air-to-air pilots usually try to either gain clearance from the AWACs, or ID their targets visually before they fire, even if they are in danger of being shot back at. It's better to get shot down yourself than to kill a friendly and have to live with that in your conscience, I guess. Sure, it's not the best way to employ a BVR machine like an F-15, but hey, what can you do?
Omega Oska Posted May 10, 2005 Author Posted May 10, 2005 I wonder if europe or the eastern world has the similar ROEs. If yes, then I suppose it's not too big a problem. Are the rules somehow being consulted with the UN of something?
schimmel Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 I wonder if europe or the eastern world has the similar ROEs. If yes, then I suppose it's not too big a problem. Are the rules somehow being consulted with the UN of something? Cmon... the war in Iraq was not approved by the UN. Neither was the no-fly zone in Iraq nor the war on Serbia and so on... The UN is only consulted if it's in one's own interest (I'm talking about every nation here). It's only a chatting platform, which is at least a first step.
ED Team Groove Posted May 10, 2005 ED Team Posted May 10, 2005 Im pretty sure all the Airforces of the world have clear ROEs ! Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
ThirdELTPoznan Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Im pretty sure all the Airforces of the world have clear ROEs ! It depands on situation. ROE will be different during war and peace. GROM- Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Manewrowego
ED Team Groove Posted May 10, 2005 ED Team Posted May 10, 2005 Zle mnie zrozumiales :) Yes, i meant clear ROEs in all times. Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Cmon... the war in Iraq was not approved by the UN. Neither was the no-fly zone in Iraq nor the war on Serbia and so on... In 1991? yes it was. But in 2003 was a different story. .
Pilotasso Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Well, it's not quite as simple as that. Sure, in some situations, fighter pilots are forced to wait until they are fired upon before they can react. I've got several books where its stated US abandoned this methodology since vietnam. BAck then US airforce suffered many casualties by the much smaller N Vietnamese AF because the smaller migs would jump on US fighters and these last, forced to react to an attack only either would be immidiatly shot down or unable to catch the fleeing migs wich used hit and run tactics. US F-4's were forced to abort their missions as they jetioned their bombs after seeing a mig only to see their prey run away once they set themselves up for counter attack. So current tactic is to wait untill the enemy takes 5 deliberate turns for intercept course (while US aircraft change course to verify this), by then its declared hostile and fired upon, no longer it will have a chance (in theory) to get a shot off before that hapens. .
ThirdELTPoznan Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Zle mnie zrozumiales :) Yes, i meant clear ROEs in all times. Dobrze cie zrozumialem. Chodzi mi o to ze lotnictwo kazdego kraju ma swoje ROE ale roznia sie one i tak w zaleznosci od sytuacji. GROM- Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Manewrowego
golfsierra2 Posted May 10, 2005 Posted May 10, 2005 Mc 362 This may clarify some questions: http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usacsl/divisions/pksoi/Military/Planning/Web%20roe%2001/sld044.htm http://www.smallwars.quantico.usmc.mil/search/Gazette/womack.pdf http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0365/is_n1_v39/ai_16888381 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_Engagement http://198.231.69.12/papers/csc30/mds/clancy.htm kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic]
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