SHKVAL + NAV + TURN TO TARGET

[ChromeWasp]

I managed to store a target in the PVI-800 as TP#5

 

I can use ROUTE mode to navigate back to the TP

 

but I want to setup the TP as the current SHKVAL target so I can do a low high-speed run-in - with weapons alreading aiming in correct direction

 

That will work if I just fly away and then turn on turn to target (without using the PVI-800)

 

Ideally I want to set multiple targets and take them all out in one pass

 

By pressing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 after each kill

 

Is that possible? Or does the PVI-800 only store rough coordinates - not with the full accuracy of the shkval?

[Toadster]

Ideally, once you know where one target is in a certain area, it's not neccessary to label them all. If your going that low for multiple kills using guns or rockets, you're better off engaging Boresight mode in conjunction with the SHKVAL instead of relying on the navigation system for targeting. I personally do not use the PVI for close target tracking. The ABRIS can easily store target data for you when used in conjunction with the HMD eyepiece, that way if you get turned around or have to extend defensive, you can easily locate the target again on your ABRIS screen.

 

But be very careful that all the threats, such as Shilkas, Man Pads, etc. are eliminated before running in for the low pass "Hollywood" kills. Also watch for shrapnel from explosions - if you are too low, you will get damaged Use your VIHKR's from a distance to clear out the major threats first, or you'll end up in pieces...:D

[ChromeWasp]

Sounds like good advice

 

Can the ABRIS store a 3D position and restore this to the shkval later?

[Toadster]

You can add it to your ABRIS in a few ways via the menu, which will in turn give you Lat & Long, along with the visual of it. But it'll be more of a workflow to get it entered while you're flying. See Section 7 of the manual for information on how to store and use ABRIS NAV dat.

 

So, it all depends on how and why you want to store the data really. If you're flying directly over the targets and marking to save the goodies for later, that's understandable, but you may catch a SAM in the belly for your troubles. On the other hand, gathering target data from a distance to be able to datalink to your buddies is very cool too.

 

But to answer your question, check the manual Section 11 for using the SHKVAL and PVI, etc. Here's a quick excerpt from Section 11-5 regarding the PVI:

 

Designate Target Points

 

The Ka-50 navigation-targeting system can store up to 10 Target Points (TP), which can

be actual targets or ingress points. Setting a TP can be done in two ways:

 

* Target Point fly-over. In this scenario, the TP is the ground coordinate that

the helicopter was flying over when the TP was created. (as you had done with the PVI, and therefore gives you the 3D data)

* Shkval I-251 Designation. Using the Shkval system and the laser

rangefinder, a ground location can be designated and set as a TP. This is done

by determining range and bearing between designation point and own ship. (this will also give you the 3D data)

 

However, by using the Data Link system in conjunction with the SHKVAL, you can still set your targets, Ingress point and even use the EnRoute Mode to get there as required, plus be able to share the data with others so it shows up on their ABRIS. Just scroll down to Section 11-6 in the manual and read along.

 

I hope this is answering your questions properly, if not please let me know. :thumbup:

 

S!

Edited August 14, 2010 by Toadster
my usual grammar errors...

[ChromeWasp]

(The manual isn't clear on this)

 

I was thinking (hoping) that by selecting a shkval generated Target Point that, upon recall, the 3D coordinate would be transmitted to the shkval - so you could literally return directly to the target - because the shkval would be looking for the original point

 

as happens if you designated a point and then flew away (without caging the shkval) - and then activated route mode + turn to target

 

But I am thinking it only transmits coordinate to autopilot - not to shkval

 

I have been storing a single enemy soldier in TP#5 then locking the shkval - flying away and then hoping to return with shkval pointing at exact same location

 

That way I could store 5 TPs and take them all out by just pressing 1 to 5 on the NAV pad and release or fire weapons

 

So I have to manually find them again with the shkval each time?

[topdog]

I've been cheating and basically marking up all my targets/points of interest using the datalink, then I set each one in turn to my ingress datalink point, which the shkval zooms to when you uncage it.

 

Obviously this hampers the use of the ingress point for its actual intended purpose, but when I need a quick solution it has sufficed.

[Toadster]

Ah, I see.

 

Unfortunately, the system isn't that advanced I'm afraid. Even sending Data Link info to another Shark in the area means fine tuning his SHKVAL sights as well (it will be slightly "off"), especially when you come in from a different approach, altitude, etc.

 

The Shark is pretty good on Navigation for sure, but the SHKVAL can only do so much on it's own, the rest is up to you sir!

[ChromeWasp]

thanks

I will try wrangling the datalink :-)

[sweinhart3]

Its not perfect and requires a few more button hits than just pushing 1, 2, 3 and firing away, but what your asking is possible. Cage the shkval. If your target point is already saved on the abris, select your target on the datalink so its blinking. Hit the ingress to target on datalink. Uncage shkval. It should autoslew to your target point.

[ChromeWasp]

Lovely

that works perfectly

just have to hit the datalink target type button N times to select my target

:-)

[Toadster]

Its not perfect and requires a few more button hits than just pushing 1, 2, 3 and firing away, but what your asking is possible. Cage the shkval. If your target point is already saved on the abris, select your target on the datalink so its blinking. Hit the ingress to target on datalink. Uncage shkval. It should autoslew to your target point.

 

Yes it is possible, but I'm not sure how accurate the Target Gate will still be if you fly around the area a few KM's away if you happen to go defensive and then re-cage the SHKVAL. If the target location is off, you can just align it again. I would think more likely if you're in a hover to use your this feature with VIHKRs and then select your targets 1,2,3 no problem for example.

 

The beginning of this thread asked about going fast and low while doing all of this so my point was, if you're within 2 to 3 KM's of the targets and plan to attempt multiple strikes, it would be far less work to engage them via Boresight Mode and manually take them out with guns or rockets. Save the VIKHRs for some long distance love I always say...:thumbup:

 

Cheers!

[Lio]

You can use the PVI800 to the same effect as the datalink panel.

 

Example:

Set laser to standby.

Set PVI800 to EDIT mode.

Set the INU/UPDATE switch to INU(next to the mode selector knob).

 

Find target and get range on it. You can either enable tracking or just point it out in the shkval.

 

PVI800 Toggle TGT mode.

PVI800 Press 1(or another number to set target point to use for storage)

Press the Cage/Uncage shkval on the cyclic.

PVI800 Press Enter.

 

You can now repeat for more targets. Simply select a new number, find a new target and hit the cage and then enter.

 

When done:

 

Return PVI800 to OPFR mode and set the INU/UPDATE switch back to UPDATE.

 

Now to use this set PVI800 to TGT mode. Select a target point. Hit the uncage and the shkval will slave to the point. Select a new target point on the PVI800 and hit uncage and the shkval will slave to the new point.

 

If you dont set the INU(Shkval)/UPDATE(ownship) switch to INU it wont store target info from the shkval but the ownship cordinates instead.

 

Hope this helped you.

[ChromeWasp]

You can use the PVI800 to the same effect as the datalink panel.

 

Set the INU/UPDATE switch to INU (next to the mode selector knob).

 

If you dont set the INU(Shkval)/UPDATE(ownship) switch to INU it wont store target info from the shkval but the ownship cordinates instead

 

:prop: Yes! this works perfectly

 

But I think it is the opposite of what the manual says ...

[Slayer]

Great thread. Was trying to figure out how to do exactly this the other night. Even if it doesn't take you back to a shkval lock it will get you in the area. Especially useful when there are targets near or in the forrest and they are hard to see(evil mission designers like to hide manpads in the forrest).

[ChromeWasp]

------------------------------------------------------------

SHKVAL + PVI800 TARGET POINTS HOW TO

------------------------------------------------------------

SETUP

------------------------------------------------------------

 

PVI800: Switch to INU mode

 

------------------------------------------------------------

STORE TARGET

------------------------------------------------------------

 

SHKVAL: Designate Target (O)

SHKVAL: Use Laser to get Range (ENTER)

PVI800: Turn anticlockwise to EDIT mode

PVI800: Press TARGET button (OT)

PVI800: Press TP# button [0]-[9]

SHKVAL: Press Designate (O)

PVI800: Press ENTER (BB0A)

PVI800: Turn clockwise to OPERATE mode

 

------------------------------------------------------------

RETURN TO TARGET

------------------------------------------------------------

 

PVI800: Ensure in OPERATE mode

PVI800: Press TARGET button (OT)

PVI800: Press TP# button [0]-[9]

SHKVAL: Cage (BACK)

SHKVAL: Designate (O) (Uncage) // confirm target active

 

AP: Route Mode ®

AP: Turn to Target (Q)

 

------------------------------------------------------------

CHANGE TARGET // from current target to new target

------------------------------------------------------------

 

PVI800: Press TP# button [0]-[9]

SHKVAL: Cage (BACK)

SHKVAL: Designate (O) (Uncage) // confirm target active

 

------------------------------------------------------------

--(END)

------------------------------------------------------------

Edited August 15, 2010 by ChromeWasp

[ChromeWasp]

I found a good altitude hold + radar altimeter technique

 

Always activate the ALT HOLD mode with about 2 to 3 m/s of vertical speed (upwards) as you cross your target altitude

 

This will bias the APs authority towards ascending ...

then the AP will have around 36% authority to keep you away from ground ...

 

So if I want to hold at 40m I descend to 30m then ascend at 3m/s then activate ALT HOLD as I reach 40m

 

Now you can perform low level tactical manoevres and the AP will mostly avoid the ground for you

[Toadster]

I found a good altitude hold + radar altimeter technique

 

Always activate the ALT HOLD mode with about 2 to 3 m/s of vertical speed (upwards) as you cross your target altitude

 

This will bias the APs authority towards ascending ...

then the AP will have around 36% authority to keep you away from ground ...

 

So if I want to hold at 40m I descend to 30m then ascend at 3m/s then activate ALT HOLD as I reach 40m

 

Now you can perform low level tactical manoevres and the AP will mostly avoid the ground for you

 

Everyone is entitled to fly and shoot how they want, so allow me to pass on some words of experience from me to you:

 

* Regarding PVI target marking:

 

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean it'll help you in the long run. It sounds like a boat load of work in the pit if your already flying fast and low...

 

* Regarding ALT Hold while flying fast and low:

 

Bad flying habits are hard to break, but good flying habits will keep you safe. Flying Low and Fast with ALT Hold on will get you into trouble eventually. Get hit with some ground fire or shrapnel, or even enter a Vortex Ring Situation, and you'll need every bit of response from your Collective immediately. :joystick:

 

Fighting the AP authority at low level will have you porpoising everywhere, and is NOT what the system was intended for (again, a bad habit to get into). From what you're describing, you're letting the Aircraft fly you, and not the other way around.

 

Fly Smart at all times...:smartass:

Fly Safe at all times...:pilotfly:

Fly in Control at ALL times...:thumbup:

 

OK, that's me off the Soap Box...:D

 

S!

[Lio]

Actualy Toadster alot of people have stated that real KA50 pilots are not allowed to fly with Autopilot channels off.

 

Some have even said that flying with FD on and channels on for dampening isnt advised since it invokes bad habits so to each his own. I say it depends. If you fly over open and flat land you can fly low with the AP engaged. If trimmed properly the KA50 will keep a level flight.

 

I have the AP emergencey disengage mapped to my joystick for the reason you describe.

 

That said i agree that if you fly low and fast using terrain masking i do prefer to do it with FD on for the control but then you also cant do much else other then looking ahead and focus on flying.

 

Advantage of the AP is you can scout and operate the avionics while flying.

[Toadster]

Actualy Toadster alot of people have stated that real KA50 pilots are not allowed to fly with Autopilot channels off.

 

Some have even said that flying with FD on and channels on for dampening isnt advised since it invokes bad habits so to each his own. I say it depends. If you fly over open and flat land you can fly low with the AP engaged. If trimmed properly the KA50 will keep a level flight.

 

I have the AP emergencey disengage mapped to my joystick for the reason you describe.

 

That said i agree that if you fly low and fast using terrain masking i do prefer to do it with FD on for the control but then you also cant do much else other then looking ahead and focus on flying.

 

Advantage of the AP is you can scout and operate the avionics while flying.

 

Concur Lio, but I never mentioned turning off the AP Channels altogether, I was exclusive to the ALT Hold procedure that ChromeWasp has mentioned. The 3 dampner Channels should always be on, but adding the ALT Hold is not necessary for low level flying. Also, the type of flying as it applied to this particular thread was low level combat maneuvering for engaging targets, which requires lots of hands on.

 

Transitioning from point A to point B is a whole other matter of course and having the FD Channel engaged is also a matter of choice as you mentioned. (I too use the FD to fly low level). I would much rather be in complete control at low altitudes during combat maneuvering, than rely on the AP to guide me around, but again, personal preference as you said.

 

S!

[ChromeWasp]

storing targets is very handy - you can laser targets from a very long way away and then plan the attack

 

once the action begins switching targets is just 3 button presses: TGT# CAGE UNCAGE

 

also I have the buttons for storing tgts setup in a line - I can store a new target with three fingers on my left hand in under 2 seconds

 

I use ROUTE with a low airspeed (~30 kph) so I can arrive at high speed and after reducing speed to ~50 kph I turn off FD and release weapons, switch target, release weapons, switch release, switch release // knowing the helicopter is stable I only need to scan altitude, vspeed and gndspeed every 10 or 20 seconds - sometimes the targets are finished before I check

 

ROUTE mode has much more heading authority than HOVER mode - and with some forward airspeed it is less likely to oscillate also

[Toadster]

storing targets is very handy - you can laser targets from a very long way away and then plan the attack

 

once the action begins switching targets is just 3 button presses: TGT# CAGE UNCAGE

 

also I have the buttons for storing tgts setup in a line - I can store a new target with three fingers on my left hand in under 2 seconds

 

I use ROUTE with a low airspeed (~30 kph) so I can arrive at high speed and after reducing speed to ~50 kph I turn off FD and release weapons, switch target, release weapons, switch release, switch release // knowing the helicopter is stable I only need to scan altitude, vspeed and gndspeed every 10 or 20 seconds - sometimes the targets are finished before I check

 

ROUTE mode has much more heading authority than HOVER mode - and with some forward airspeed it is less likely to oscillate also

 

As you wish sir...

 

S!

[macrylinda1]

(The manual isn't clear on this)

 

I was thinking (hoping) that by selecting a shkval generated Target Point that, upon recall, the 3D coordinate would be transmitted to the shkval - so you could literally return directly to the target - because the shkval would be looking for the original point

 

as happens if you designated a point and then flew away (without caging the shkval) - and then activated route mode + turn to target

 

But I am thinking it only transmits coordinate to autopilot - not to shkval

 

I have been storing a single enemy soldier in TP#5 then locking the shkval - flying away and then hoping to return with shkval pointing at exact same location

 

That way I could store 5 TPs and take them all out by just pressing 1 to 5 on the NAV pad and release or fire weapons

 

So I have to manually find them again with the shkval each time?

I've been cheating and basically marking up all my targets/points of interest using the datalink, then I set each one in turn to my ingress datalink point, which the shkval zooms to when you uncage it.

 

Obviously this hampers the use of the ingress point for its actual intended purpose, but when I need a quick solution it has sufficed.

[Heli Shed]

storing targets is very handy - you can laser targets from a very long way away and then plan the attack

 

once the action begins switching targets is just 3 button presses: TGT# CAGE UNCAGE

 

also I have the buttons for storing tgts setup in a line - I can store a new target with three fingers on my left hand in under 2 seconds

 

I use ROUTE with a low airspeed (~30 kph) so I can arrive at high speed and after reducing speed to ~50 kph I turn off FD and release weapons, switch target, release weapons, switch release, switch release // knowing the helicopter is stable I only need to scan altitude, vspeed and gndspeed every 10 or 20 seconds - sometimes the targets are finished before I check

 

ROUTE mode has much more heading authority than HOVER mode - and with some forward airspeed it is less likely to oscillate also

 

It never ceases to amaze me!