Starting my pit

[hog_driver111th]

Hey all,

Some of you have helped me in my trek to get my pit past the "I think I want to build one" stage. Instead of constantly taking space in each topic, I thought I'd start my own with my questions. Once I have something to show for my pit, I'll post the pictures.

Here are some questions in mind:

 

OC cards - I'm wanting to go the SOIC route so that later on in the build I can add the backlighting/displays without buying extra cards... and also doing everything per LUA. Question is, which cards do I need from start to finish (mastercard, USB expansion...) List Everything!

 

Switches - Thanks Rocketeer for your information on the switches. I'm looking for some actual part numbers for pretty much every switch, knob, button, screws, bolts... in doing my research I've come up with hundreds of numbers, but not for the cheap stuff. Can you guys leave some numbers for me to take a look at from what you are using?

 

Panels - I'm thinking of starting the whole thing out of wood. The Lufthansa Hangar Chief did say that if I want something out of aluminum, he'd have it done for me (still would have to pay, but it's a good offer). I have the images for the panels, or most of them. Even if I do it out of wood, should I do multiple layers, and how thick? No backlighting for now.

 

Paint - I know the basic colors are black and grey. When building in wood, do you use primer, color, clear coat... and if acrylic or aluminum, do you do the same?

 

Berlin - Anyone live near me in Berlin Germany with a CNC that would be willing to help? hehe.

 

I know I'll have a ton of questions, but that's what's at the top of my mind at the moment. Thanks for any answers provided, and I hope to start work on a panel sometime soon!

[Triggerhappy69]

Hey all,

Some of you have helped me in my trek to get my pit past the "I think I want to build one" stage. Instead of constantly taking space in each topic, I thought I'd start my own with my questions. Once I have something to show for my pit, I'll post the pictures.

Here are some questions in mind:

 

OC cards - I'm wanting to go the SOIC route so that later on in the build I can add the backlighting/displays without buying extra cards... and also doing everything per LUA. Question is, which cards do I need from start to finish (mastercard, USB expansion...) List Everything!

 

Id'e start with those two (Master and USB Expansion card), and work my way from there. You can connect all switches and push-buttons and rotaries to the Mastercard's inputs, and LED's to outputs. As you progress in the building prosess the need for aditional I/O Cards will arise. But there's no need to bite over more than you can chew for now.

 

Switches - Thanks Rocketeer for your information on the switches. I'm looking for some actual part numbers for pretty much every switch, knob, button, screws, bolts... in doing my research I've come up with hundreds of numbers, but not for the cheap stuff. Can you guys leave some numbers for me to take a look at from what you are using?

 

.. All I can say is EBay.com ! I can PM some links to Stores on EBay that I have bought from later today if you want?P

Panels - I'm thinking of starting the whole thing out of wood. The Lufthansa Hangar Chief did say that if I want something out of aluminum, he'd have it done for me (still would have to pay, but it's a good offer). I have the images for the panels, or most of them. Even if I do it out of wood, should I do multiple layers, and how thick? No backlighting for now.

 

Build the frame from wood, and Panels from Acrylic layered with printed paper for text.! Even for backlighted panels this works fine, if you use multiple layers of printed photopaper for the text.

It looks super-cool having a 100% Alu Pit with Dzuz Rails and laser engraved panels, but you can add this bit by bit to the original wood frame at a later stage anyway?

 

Paint - I know the basic colors are black and grey. When building in wood, do you use primer, color, clear coat... and if acrylic or aluminum, do you do the same?

 

Always use a layer of primer as a rule..! Specially since you'll be painting many different type surfaces with the same type paint.

I even use a clear primer for backlighted panels that first are painted glossy white, then dull black.!

Berlin - Anyone live near me in Berlin Germany with a CNC that would be willing to help? hehe.

 

... Can't help you there mate :cry:... I live in Norway. But there's bound to be someone here willing to give you a hand?

 

I know I'll have a ton of questions, but that's what's at the top of my mind at the moment. Thanks for any answers provided, and I hope to start work on a panel sometime soon!

 

Keep us posted on the progress..!:thumbup:

[Feed]

I agree 100% with Triggerhappy.

 

Two points I might add - For the panels that switches and buttons are actually mounted in, thickness is a consideration, since the switch/button posts are only so long, which is one reason acrylic sheet makes a good choice. I might suggest stealing a page from Rocketeer and mocking up the panels in cardboard first, or masonite (fiberboard), which is what I'm doing - that way, when you discover you've done something wrong (which is almost guaranteed to happen), it's no big deal. Once I get everything working the way I want it to, I may start the transition to sheet metal, acrylic, backlighting, etc.

 

I personally wouldn't worry about specific part numbers. If you go with OpenCockpits cards, the highest electrical current you'll have to deal with is 5V DC at around 20mA ... that's less current than a typical model railroad layout. Most standard toggle switches are designed to handle far beyond that. Like Triggerhappy, I've been having good luck finding switches on eBay. He may have better specific stores to point you toward since he's closer (I'm in the US). In general, the more you can buy at once, the cheaper it is per unit, so plan ahead!

 

As far as start to finish on the OC cards, the USB Expansion and one Master Card are what you'll need to get started with the most basic stuff (exactly what Triggerhappy advised). Depending on your wants as things progress, you'll be able to add other cards for additional functionality. One Master Card though, will give you 72 inputs, and 38 outputs (usually used for individual LED indicators). One USB Expansion card (needed for interfacing the Master Card) will accept up to 4 Master Cards, and has 4 inputs for potentiometer input. By the time you're ready to add more, you'll have an understanding of SIOC, and will know what you'd like to add next.

 

I can't wait to see how yours starts to come together!

[104th_Taipan]

I will busy save for this.

 

http://www.realsimulator.com/html/simulation.html

[hog_driver111th]

Thanks Trigger and Feed for your replies. One reason I'm asking for the part numbers you all are using is because I've looked at a million toggles online at many different sites, but they all seem to look the same to me (at least the ones like in the picture). Good to know on the OC cards. I was thinking I'd have to buy more cards than just the two. Wiring them looks easy, but my brother-in-law is a master electronics guy and very good with software. I just fly the planes :pilotfly:(real world too).

 

An update (yep, already): I've got just about every side panel except for the throttle area due to the soon to be purchased Warthog (from SCSim). I've also lamanated them for easy use, and will be attaching them to boards. My panel dimensions are a rough guess looking at pictures, but I'll scroll around the forum for some answers whenever I have time. Usually my free time is actually at work at the airport (at home, the wife is there, :doh:).

 

[Feed]

I believe the toggle in your picture is a standard on-on SPDT mini toggle switch. That type has 2 positions, either of which can be "on" - it's very versatile. It's somewhat smaller than standard toggle switches, but still usable. I have a bunch of that size as well, but did decide to go with several of the somewhat larger, standard toggles.

 

The width of all the individual panels will be 5.75 inches wide, and with the mounting rails, the width of each side area (2 panel widths + a little due to the rails) will be very close to 12 inches. I'm SURE there is better information in some of the other posts, but that's very close to the real thing. Keep us posted!

[hog_driver111th]

Quick question about the OC cards. The mastercard... do I need to buy an input and output connection card to connect the switches up to it, or can I just get the mastercard?

[rocketeer]

See post #3 by Feed. The MC can do 72 inputs And 38 outputs. But unless you have an old PC with printer port, you'd need to get the USB expansion card to connect the mc to your PC. One USB card can connect 4 mc. You can buy one of each for a start.

 

It'd need a 5v source. If you don't have a 5v adaptor use one of the power cables in your PC. Just make sure you use the correct one.

[Feed]

OpenCockpits no longer supports the use of a parallel port direct connect, anyway ... not saying it's impossible, just that their manual assumes you're using a USB expansion.

 

If you're asking about the little connection cards they offer, the answer is no, you do not need them. You can use an old 40-pin IDE hard drive cable, and wire that to terminal blocks, modular jacks, D-sub connectors, or directly to your switches (be sure!). The cards they offer are a nice tidy solution to make wiring easier, but they are not the only option.

[hog_driver111th]

Good to know about the cards. I'll start out with 1 master and 1 usb card, and see where it takes me. I also got an offer from a Lufthansa Mx Manager I know to make my panels for me... question is, he said that they are aluminum... but if they are, how do they get the backlighting? You guys using aluminum for your panels, can you give me a hint here? I'd rather take my stuff to him all ready to be cut out instead of going back to him afterwards needing it a different way.

[Feed]

There's a few different ways to do backlighting, and it's really too big a topic to address in a single note. Commonly, real aircraft panels have a metal plate where the switches (and backlighting, whether that;s LEDs, EL film, or standard lamps, are mounted. Then a translucent layer is on top of that, and the lights illuminate this layer, while there are openings for switch tops, etc. Then that translucent layer is painted/enameled/whatever - covered with an opaque coating. Lettering/lines are then etched through this final layer, letting the illuminated, translucent material show through. I have absolutely NO experience with backlighting, so I'm probably not a great source of information on DIY backlighting ... but there are lots of threads around here that have information about how folks have done it. Good luck! :)

[hog_driver111th]

Thanks Feed. That's about the same I was thinking, but I had also thought that the top panel (what we see) is thin aluminum covering the clear light panel over the aluminum base... but not sure how it was done. I'll talk to him and just say "I want a panel made like the real ones with backlighting" and see what happens. hehe. Pictures coming soon!

[Feed]

HAHAA ... I doubt he's set tp to do that, but who knows!? The real panels I've got only have the one layer of metal. I should really get set up to post pictures. A couple of the corners have been chipped off, which really lets you see how it's put together. I had always thought the top surface was metal as well, and when I saw the chipped corner, it was a real revelation that the whole front panel is (tempered glass?). I really don't know exactly what it is, but that's what it looks like.

[Deadman]

Guys the light plates are engraved 0.23 pieces of clear acrylic the back plates are 0.64 aluminum there are many ways to make the plates GUs did a very good tutorial on another site http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=5560.msg78817#msg78817

[power5]

Could have a decal made at a sign shop. Apply so that letters stay on acrylic. Spray paint flat black then painstakingly remove the letters.

[Feed]

The link Deadman posted looks like a great way to do it. I was merely decribing the panels I have sitting here from real aircraft - certainly beyond my capabilities.

[pitbldr]

For those who like this kind of stuff, follow the link to find the mil specs on illuminated panels. Look for MIL-P-7788F. There are two, second one is an amendment.

 

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL+SPECS+(MIL-P)/

 

These have been replaced with SAE AS-7788, but I cannot find that one for free anywhere.

 

The 7788F doc is mostly text, but on the next to the last page it has the font I believe is used on panels (or at least when then document was current).