Isnt zooming on the HUD kind of cheating?

[Avatar72]

So I've been practicing my strafing runs on soft targets and I was getting frustrated because I can't see my targets in normal zoom mode.

I had to zoom in as far as I can on my HUD too see my target so I can line up the piper.

 

This problem of seeing my target seems a bit realistic to me but how in the world would a real pilot see his target?

Zooming is my only choice and seems like a cheat. Am I just overeacting here?

 

I've used my TGP to search for infantry but this seems a little over the top when attacking a target like this. Not only that but even when I use this method, the SPI marker gets overwritten by the reticle so even this isnt very effective since I loose my target location.

[Weaponz248]

RL pilots have binoculars and can lean forward in their seat and also have the benefit of the best graphics engine in the world. So I wouldnt call zooming in cheating. And the TGP is used to search for targets thats what it is there for :)

[Dethmagnetic]

RL pilots have binoculars and can lean forward in their seat and also have the benefit of the best graphics engine in the world. So I wouldnt call zooming in cheating. And the TGP is used to search for targets thats what it is there for :)

 

What he said. I don't see zooming (or using labels) as cheating, I see it as compensating for the optical disadvantages sim pilots have to deal with. It must be much easier to spot targets in real life - they move, they kick up dust, they have muzzle flashes and exhaust fumes, they don't get decluttered if you're too far away from them, and you've got lots of other people on the radio around you helping you find them.

[Avatar72]

What he said. I don't see zooming (or using labels) as cheating, I see it as compensating for the optical disadvantages sim pilots have to deal with. It must be much easier to spot targets in real life - they move, they kick up dust, they have muzzle flashes and exhaust fumes, they don't get decluttered if you're too far away from them, and you've got lots of other people on the radio around you helping you find them.

 

Yea I used F10 a lot in BS to find my target to compensate for the lack of communication on target location from friendlies you might otherwise get.

[Kuky]

Real pilots most certainly DO NOT use binoculars when straffing the target ;)

[Weaponz248]

Real pilots most certainly DO NOT use binoculars when straffing the target ;)

 

 

No but they do to get a look at where the targets are...

[nomdeplume]

Mostly I see zooming as the only way to compensate for the relatively low resolution of a monitor, while still being able to give you a wide field of view at other times. So don't think of it as cheating; think of it as being cheated, since zooming in and out is pretty cumbersome.

[Kuky]

No but they do to get a look at where the targets are...

 

yeah they do... when flying wings level at 1G

 

Anyway, I've stopped using zoom altogether. I can locate targets with TGP or if there are no threats like IR's MANPAD's etc I can come in lower and visually look for them, of course I would need to know beforehand where about they are to begin with... but anyway.. I do think zoom is more of a cheat as most people use it when straffing, or if in a fighter, they zoom in to see what still far away aircraft is doing when they fire at them.

[Weaponz248]

yeah they do... when flying wings level at 1G

 

Anyway, I've stopped using zoom altogether. I can locate targets with TGP or if there are no threats like IR's MANPAD's etc I can come in lower and visually look for them, of course I would need to know beforehand where about they are to begin with... but anyway.. I do think zoom is more of a cheat as most people use it when straffing, or if in a fighter, they zoom in to see what still far away aircraft is doing when they fire at them.

 

 

Well in R/L you would have ground troops and smoke to light the target area. Also zooming in a sim is like someone else said compensation for draw distances and graphics. Now using external views well thats a bit of a different subject if you ask me... But I can see both sides of the argument. The TGP is there for aid and works fine but sometimes you just need that extra zoom to confirm what you are doing.

[nomdeplume]

I do think zoom is more of a cheat as most people use it when straffing, or if in a fighter, they zoom in to see what still far away aircraft is doing when they fire at them.

 

I don't think it's cheating at all; you get a better look at your target, but you also lose all peripheral vision, and if you zoom right in to levels that might be unrealistic for a pilot with good eyesight to achieve 'naturally', you pretty much sacrifice all situational awareness.

 

Think of it as game-enforced target fixation. Not only are you completely focused on one single thing, but even if you do suddenly remember there's a world outside of the straw you're looking through, it's very disruptive to actually do anything about it.

 

It probably also depends on what your setup is. If you've got a large, high-res screen, zooming in will be much less necessary than if you're playing at a lower resolution.

[Kuky]

I know, you can argue both ways

[Teknetinium]

Noobs you can see zooming as focus in ur eyes:hehe:

Edited November 28, 2010 by Teknetinium

[Avatar72]

It probably also depends on what your setup is. If you've got a large, high-res screen, zooming in will be much less necessary than if you're playing at a lower resolution.

 

 

Well I'm playing at 1920x1200 which is just about as good as you can get. I cant see infantry by the naked eye unless I'm almost on top of them (<1 nm) and a few hundred feet in the air. I see them better when zoomed in of course.

 

I agree with many posts that screen details takes away from our RL abilities and applying it to within the game.

Of course in any combat situation in RL....what infantry is going to be stupid enough to stand out in the open while CAS aircraft are performing straffing runs. They would be running their asses off....that makes for an easy to find target. In this game...they stand there making them near impossible to spot.

I would hope in all cases with DCS and hopefully custom missions developed by the community that I'm not forced to knock out 100% of these mini targets in order to accomplish a mission or priority target.

 

This was a bit frustrating with the first instant action mission (havent tried others yet)

[ESzczesniak]

Mostly I see zooming as the only way to compensate for the relatively low resolution of a monitor, while still being able to give you a wide field of view at other times. So don't think of it as cheating; think of it as being cheated, since zooming in and out is pretty cumbersome.

 

Exactly! Real life has much greater resolution than a computer monitor. No pilot strafes through binoculars, but they also have the advantage of nearly infinite resolution. This is similar to zooming in so you can read the numbers on the HUD. In real life, the resolution is much better and the HUD is establised so that any pilot (20/20 vision) can read the text. I have 20/20 vision and can't read the text unless zoomed in a little bit.

[GGTharos]

RL pilots have better visual acuity than provided through your monitor (technical limitations), but also terrain usually has more minute features in RL which makes it easier to re-acquire the target (again a technical limitation). You can forget about finding a target if the battlefield is obscured, your target is camouflaged or you are under duress.

 

Also, spotting infantry with Mk-1 eyeball from the a-10 ... not very likely. Possible in some situations, but I'd think that to be the exception to the rule, even if said infantry is moving.

[Invisibull]

I've done this type of post elsewhere, but here's a reference of about what you'd see from 1 nautical mile above. I know visual acuity varies from person to person, but in my experience this seems like a pretty accurate depiction. Do you really think you could see an infantryman from this slant range? I'd say you'd have your hands full finding a tank from this distance let alone a single manpad toting individual.

[4cKljun]

I've done this type of post elsewhere, but here's a reference of about what you'd see from 1 nautical mile above. I know visual acuity varies from person to person, but in my experience this seems like a pretty accurate depiction. Do you really think you could see an infantryman from this slant range? I'd say you'd have your hands full finding a tank from this distance let alone a single manpad toting individual.

 

 

Excellent display. If anyone thinks that is so easy to find a tank to a bare field, he makes mistakes.

Anyone here expected to see a tank in the 10km, I think that in real life is very hard to succeed.

[Avatar72]

I've done this type of post elsewhere, but here's a reference of about what you'd see from 1 nautical mile above. I know visual acuity varies from person to person, but in my experience this seems like a pretty accurate depiction. Do you really think you could see an infantryman from this slant range? I'd say you'd have your hands full finding a tank from this distance let alone a single manpad toting individual.

 

Yea but do you fire guns at over 5K feet in the air? I would start my dive from that high. So, I'd have an 'idea' as to where the target is and when low enough, I'd change my flight path when I spot the target. So the image above may show its tough to spot a human target, but I dont know if anyone would be firing guns from that high.

My problem is still getting 1K above ground, <1 NM and still seeing your target.

[GGTharos]

You shoot tanks from 0.5nm, everything else from 1nm or farther, at least AFAIK.

[recoil17]

I like to engage light targets at 2 miles out with my cannon. As soon as the range indicates 2.0, I fire and break away. This works fine for light armored targets.

 

I also don't like to zoom, especially on my HUD. I go into the IFFCC menu page and turn off the CCIP occult. I lock my target with the Targeting POD and I switch to CCIP mode. I put my gun cross over the targeting pod diamond, engage PAC 1 and fire.

 

I tought myself how to fly the A-10C in Nevada and it was alot easier to spot tanks on the desert ground. Once I started flying the instant action missions, I found it really hard to spot even a URAL truck in the grass. That's why I figured out a new way to be able to engage my targets from the safest distance possible.

[Kuky]

Starting firing from 5000ft is not that far at all... spotting a human from that high is close to impossible especially when sitting in moving aircraft... but if you know area where they are you straff that area.

 

In mission Hideout I flew today (finally finished that mission without game freezing on me) and last 2 targets I took out were BTR-80's... I thought I cleared the area from anyting that can shoot at me and went for close straffing run on a truck... and I heard gun fire... I didn't see straight away where it was coming from ... second pass and I saw the tracers... that's how I got the location of the 2 BTR's and 3rd run I knew where to look and with help of light contrast (sun in the background of the target) and shadows casted on vehicles I could spot them just as gun range was in and few seconds bursts on each BTR and they were out... so not so hard to straff target without zoom... and in my opinion lot closer to realism to do it this was rather then "taking out binoculars" and look through them while turning and straffing. :)

[Invisibull]

You shoot tanks from 0.5nm, everything else from 1nm or farther, at least AFAIK.

 

Sounds good, but as Beta 3 is currently modeled, the tank's mg would tear you up pretty good before you could pull away.

 

I open up on an MTB (from behind, ideally) from 1 nm and push the attack UNTIL i'm at .5 nm at which time I'll do a hard out of plane turn away from target.

 

It'll be nice when the tanks are correctly modeled to take damage from a greater stand-off distance as they would irl.

[GGTharos]

IRL they are attacked successfully from 0.5nm.

[Invisibull]

Yea but do you fire guns at over 5K feet in the air? I would start my dive from that high. So, I'd have an 'idea' as to where the target is and when low enough, I'd change my flight path when I spot the target. So the image above may show its tough to spot a human target, but I dont know if anyone would be firing guns from that high.

My problem is still getting 1K above ground, <1 NM and still seeing your target.

 

If you're doing a high angle dive onto the target, 5000ft above the top of a tank is exactly when you'd want to open up. However, I personally would not dive down hoping to "maybe" acquire a target on the way down. Either I know exactly where he is, or, using the TGP, I'll wait until I do.

[Boberro]

Yes and no. Sometimes it is cheating, sometimes it isn't so there isn't only one, right answer. It is as discussable as putting Shkval on 20" inch or larger LCD, example 50". Is it cheating or not :)