Stuck in startup tutorial: Cannot start engines with r-alt/r-ctrl + HOME

[Bahger]

I'm completely baffled. This morning I was able to run the startup tutorial perfectly. This evening, the key commands for engine startup didn't work, even after performing all the preceeding tasks successfully. I tried three times. What could possibly be the problem, do you think? I have to use the key combo as I do not have a aplit-throttle HOTAS. Help much appreciated.

[awjudge]

If you have a HOTAS, make sure you have the throttles fully idle.

[MTFDarkEagle]

Could you send a track file?

[nomdeplume]

Probably what awjudge said. The engines won't start unless your throttle is all the way back. You can use right-control + enter to pop up a little indicator showing the positions of your controls. You can try moving your throttle all the way forward and then all the way back to make sure it's tracking the entire range.

[Bahger]

Thanks for your help, guys. This is the strangest and most frustrating thing. I cannot seem to fix it. Here are the grisly details:

 

- In ramp starts my HOTAS throttle does not animate the virtual throttle levers in the sim. In runway/air starts it works perfectly. Ditto stick X-axis (roll).

 

- I get no response at all using the Right Ctrl-Enter utility during start up.

 

- Right-Alt + Home does nothing to start the engines after every preceding step has been followed properly.

 

- All button presses correspond perfectly with their virtual equivalents in cockpit.

 

- All axes report perfectly in the sim's controller test interface and in the CH Control Manager. I have a very well-maintained CH HOTAS with throttle and stick. I use my G25 pedals for rudder.

 

All I can think of doing is reinstalling the Beta. Sigh. Before I do, can anyone come up with anything else? Many thanks.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Post a track before you reinstall, that is quite a drastic measure for what is probably a basic problem.

[Bahger]

Again, thanks for your interest. Despite being an experienced study simmer, this is the first time I have committed to learning a full cold start so the problems are very discouraging.

 

Here is a track. Bear in mind that for the sake of brevity I skip the radio start procedures. The track ends when several (invisible) attempts to start the engines with the keyboard commands fail. Also, you will notice at the end that only the Y-axis inputs seem to register in the cockpit, X axis and throttle (z) do not work...yet they do for ramp/air starts. I'm quite confounded.

[Scarface]

Have you tried the setting, in options, to synchronize the HOTAS controls at the start of mission?

[Bahger]

Have you tried the setting, in options, to synchronize the HOTAS controls at the start of mission?

 

You know, I thought that was going to be the magic bullet, Scarface, but, alas, all it does is invalidate my HOTAS input almost entirely. You know how the view zooms out gradually when you first enter the cockpit? With the synch HOTAS box checked, it doesn't do that and all most control responses are not working.

 

Given that the ramp start worked once yesterday but hasn't since, I'm beginning to think that something in the Beta must have gone FUBAR and that I might need to reinstall. Luckily the reinstall saves my control settings and isn't too much of a pain. I won't do it until this evening in case there are other ideas. Thanks anyway.

[dnme]

OP

Which startup tutorial are you following? The manual or the video?

[Bahger]

Hey dnme, I have used the latest startup tutorial with voice-over, as released shortly after Beta 3, and in trying a ramp start in a non-tutorial mission, a good user-made checklist.

 

I simply don't understand why the HOTAS functionality is different pre-start than it is post-start, it seems to defy logic but appears to be the cause of my problems.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

Have you tried to ramp start with no controllers connected at all?

[Bahger]

Good idea. What would be the next step if that worked, I wonder?

[kylania]

Really sounds like the throttles-not-at-idle problem to me, maybe just move the throttles up then down again? Tried that yet?

[Bahger]

The problem is that the throttle will not move, at all. Only the stick roll axis, and all button presses, are reflected in the movement of the corresponding virtual controller. All axes work perfectly in the already-started jet, with the throttle moving in line with my HOTAS throttle movements. It is truly bizarre and annoying.

[Crosser]

I had this problem once before in Beta 2. If I started on the ramp and had the throttle even slightly up it wouldn't allow me to start the engines even after I brought the axis (and keyboard command) back to no throttle. Once I figured out my throttle wasn't fully returning to the "0%" position it's been working fine ever since. I would suggest double checking your joystick calibration and possibly profile. For whatever reason my profile was only giving me a window of 65% total axis use. Like previously said, the virtual throttles are 'locked' in the off position even if your axis or input commands aren't.

[nomdeplume]

The throttle won't move initially. I'm not exactly sure how the throttle works in reality (still waiting for my HOTAS Warthog to arrive :D) but from my understanding, the throttle at the very bottom of its movement has an 'off' position. To get from 'off' to 'idle' you have to physically lift it past a detent, or something like that.

 

Since most game controller throttles don't have that, the game emulates it by ignoring your physical throttle input until you put the throttle into the idle position using the key commands. I think the HOTAS Warthog throttle has the 'off' position and works like the real thing.

 

In addition to that, it will refuse to move from 'off' to 'idle' if your physical controller is anywhere except fully back.

 

This is why everyone is suggesting to verify that your throttle idle position is actually registering as exactly 0 throttle in the game. It might be that when fully back it's still telling the game to provide a tiny bit of throttle; not something you would normally notice because it wouldn't be enough to achieve anything, but since the game is looking for it to be at exactly 0 before it will allow you to start the engine, it matters a great deal in this particular sim.

[Weaponz248]

Plume you are correct in the hog you have to physically lift the throttle past a detent.

 

as for the OP it almost sounds as if you throttle axis is off a little. Im interested in the results if you unplug your throttle and go form there. If it works unplugged i would reinstall/download the latest drivers and see what happens.

 

BTW are you using the CH software or did you set everything up in game?

[kylania]

Another reason everyone should get the TM WT. :) heheh Nothing quite like the feeling of pushing the throttle over the detent and hearing the engines spin up!

[Bahger]

Guys, I think I may have a viable theory. HOME, or KBHOME as it is identified in CH CM, the key assigned by the game to start the engines (chorded with RALT and RCTRL) also has a HOTAS function (DMS UP). It seems to me that the devs might have goofed here. At any rate, CM will not allow it to be used for two functions, even when combined with a RALT or RCTRL key. It's a real challenge, but I might need to find an unused key or key combo for the right and left engine start functions and change the assignment in the game's control interface (not CM). I'm already using SHIFT F12, SHIFT F9 AND SHIFT F7 for TrackIR. Can anyone think of two unique, unused key combos that A-10 will accept as substitute key combos for right and left engine start?

 

I think my throttle is properly calibrated; I get a zero readout from CM at full idle, 224 at full throw.

 

Thhe CM programming is not complex in this sim. I set all axes in the sim itself and simply assign the sim's own very well worked out button functions, including long and short presses, to the HOTAS, as laid out in the manual, with adaptations made for the fact that it is obviously not a direct reproduction of the Hog's throttle. Until yesterday it worked perfectly; and it still does as long as I do not attempt an engine start!

[Weaponz248]

Yeah but there is about 500 reasons to not get one!! LOL maybe when i get my taxes back......if the wife lets me. HMMMM drum set or HOTAS its going to be a tough choice!

[nomdeplume]

Guys, I think I may have a viable theory. HOME, or KBHOME as it is identified in CH CM, the key assigned by the game to start the engines (chorded with RALT and RCTRL) also has a HOTAS function (DMS UP). It seems to me that the devs might have goofed here.

 

I don't see why... Ctrl+Home is different from Home by itself. But to clarify, are you actually using the keypresses on the keyboard for the engine start, or buttons that are programmed to send/emulate those keystrokes?

 

Can anyone think of two unique, unused key combos that A-10 will accept as substitute key combos for right and left engine start?

There's plenty... but I think most of the number keys (i.e. the keys in the row above the alpha keys, not the number pad) aren't assigned to anything, so they might provide a very easy way to test your hypothesis. Just go to the controls page, find the start engine commands, and add a new keystroke. If it's already in use it'll tell you at the bottom of the dialog.

 

Also - it might be worthwhile double-checking that the throttle doesn't have any other controller assigned to it, other than your physical throttle.

[dnme]

OP

I had the same problem albeit with x52 Pro. I could not ignite engines when using the manual's startup procedure. I did the following...

 

1. Uninstall controller completely

2. Restart

3. Re-install controller

4. Check controller connections especially from stick to throttle (awful loose(ish) ps2's used for the x52)

5. Load game with controller completely at default

6. Get the startup procedure video tutorial beside you on a laptop (it's now on youtube)

7. Follow it to the letter

 

That's how I did it

Edited November 30, 2010 by dnme

[kylania]

There's plenty... but I think most of the number keys (i.e. the keys in the row above the alpha keys, not the number pad) aren't assigned to anything, so they might provide a very easy way to test your hypothesis. Just go to the controls page, find the start engine commands, and add a new keystroke. If it's already in use it'll tell you at the bottom of the dialog.

 

1 - 4 are used by the LAAP system and 7-0 are used by the HOTAS CMS, so use 5 and 6. :)

[nomdeplume]

Thanks kylania, I guess I thought (very) wrong. But at least there's two spares!