Kuky Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Have a look at few of these images of view of the ocean and notice that you can't see reflection of the terrain and even clouds on the ocean surface... when water is set to high settings in DCS it actually does not look realistic at all in this photo is it very clear there is not visible reflection of the land... there is difference is "tone" of the blue which is due to different streaming of the water in regions and water level have different levels of "disturbance". This one has different seabed colours due to coral but again you cannot see reflection of the land or even trees. Can you see any clouds reflection on this photo? nope.... How about this one? And another one... everyone get my point? so instead of developers "wasting" time in coding such effects which in game does look nice at time and makes your jaw drop on the floor... but it's not actually realistic feature at all... only of very calm waters like of the lake can you see such reflections... and Black sea is not such so I think it should not be represented like that... and what's worse... the effects are using CPU/GPU cycles... I personally would like to see only slight shadowing of the clouds but it should be very uneven... not like a mirror. And few more... this time from higher up... aircraft perspective :) Here, the cloud shadows are only nicely visible when over bright light of the sunset... but looking to the sides shadows are hardly noticeable One more :D No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 I just had an idea... can we have different water "quality" depending on weather... because... here's few shots of the Adriatic Sea which is fairly small and calm sea ok... again, there is no reflection of the land visible at all here the water is fairly calm and again there is no reflections as water surface is still too disturbed but as it gets really calm, normally its like this in the evening hours, water surface gets flat enough to start acting as a mirror and then you do get reflections can we have these effects pretty please? :D (a man can dream) 1 No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geskes Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 These pictures no, but it is easy to find pictures with DCS like reflections: I7920/12GBDDR3/ASUS P6T DELUXE V2/MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G /WIN 10 Ultimate/TM HOTAS WARTHOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 (edited) yes but you are missing the point... pay attention how level water is in these images... where will you find an ocean or sea with that kind of surface? I know even ocean can be very calm but never like that... lakes and swamps yes, rivers near the estuary also... but not open seas and oceans and we are flying in this sim over Black Sea right? Edited December 30, 2010 by Kuky No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 30, 2010 Author Share Posted December 30, 2010 Black Sea this one looks like as if its reflection but its actually a shadow fairly calm sea (Black Sea) and again... no reflections No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asparagin Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Yes It's correct, the black see is not clear enough (has too much plankton in it) to get clear reflections. Realism is sometimes FPS wise! Spoiler AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, MSI MEG X570 UNIFY (AM4, AMD X570, ATX), Noctua NH-DH14, EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti XC3 ULTRA, Seasonic Focus PX (850W), Kingston HyperX 240GB, Samsung 970 EVO Plus (1000GB, M.2 2280), 32GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600 DIMM CL16, Cooler Master 932 HAF, Samsung Odyssey G5; 34", Win 10 X64 Pro, Track IR, TM Warthog, TM MFDs, Saitek Pro Flight Rudders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geskes Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) Yes true, but in first post you said not realistic at all. But I think over sea it is also possible to see reflections. This is actually some pictures from black sea region: Black sea is almost a lake. A very big one but it only has one narrow connection to the mediteranean. Found a pic of batumi coast: Edited December 31, 2010 by Geskes I7920/12GBDDR3/ASUS P6T DELUXE V2/MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G /WIN 10 Ultimate/TM HOTAS WARTHOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 this one is definitely shadows the 3rd and 4th one do have some but are not very distinct... that 4th photo with 2 rocks does show it more clearly... so what I'm thinking is can developers make such distintions in water level under different weather conditions... simulated of course? No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctahg Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 First off you cannot get reflections unless the light source is behind the reflectee..and in the first group..land is 10 miles from the photo!!!! And in another group, you need angulation to get reflections..a level seaslevel shot will not show relections cause you need an angle for the light to bounce off of....and seriously..does the water quality in the sim need to be much better? I'd ratehr they spent time and resources elsewhere... 1 I7 980Extreme@4.4 Thermalright 120Ultra Extreme Revc Classified Evga 760 X58 Gskill Trident 16000CL9T 6mb 2 GTX 480SC SLI Enermax EVO1250 Intel-BOOT- SSD 160g,One WD 400g , Corsair Force SSD 160G Onboard audio. Xclio Windtunnel Advanced case Bigfoot Killer 2100 network adapter Win7 64 bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildone_106 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I like how most of these are taken about 20 feet above the water:huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Hi Kuky, I don't know about the feasibility of this, but I can definitely tell you that there are no resources to complicate water representation to that point right now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Glowing_Amraam Posted December 31, 2010 ED Team Share Posted December 31, 2010 Here's some screens i found of some "water mods" for Crysis, though they are a bit over-done regarding the bump-mapping etc. Still looks pretty good. :) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgJRhtnqA-67pKmQ3A2GsgA ED youtube channel https://www.facebook.com/glowingamraam My facebook page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 I always use med water in lock on/DCS series for the reasons you pointed out kuky. i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 But those don't look any different than DCS' from afar. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassata Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) I'm not at my machine, but maybe someone can post a low, med, and high setting water pics from in-game for comparison? Edited December 31, 2010 by hassata [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 First off you cannot get reflections unless the light source is behind the reflectee..and in the first group..land is 10 miles from the photo!!!! .. ahem... EVERYTHING you see with your eyes is a light source, otherwise you would not see it which would mean no light is comming from that object (be it direct or indirect source of light - reflecting it):book: and Glowing Amraam... those shots are very close to reality... especially the first one...that's how the sea/ocean should look like No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 I like how most of these are taken about 20 feet above the water:huh: look little more careful... I purposfully picked some images where camera is very high up, either on the hill or from aircraft perspective. Also to describe why disturbed water cannot have reflections on the seasurface think of a sine wave curve... and a flat line... with a flat line every point of the line is at the same angle to light/reflecting light object and the observer eye... the reflections of each point is in parallel and when reflected if the even flat surface meets the observer eye in right "order" so the eye gets to "assemble" all the reflected light and get a fairly close image of the object... but when water is disturbed its surface is like a sine wave... not exact a sine wave but iregular... but point is only the peaks of this sine wave are at this same angle and those peaks are distanced fair bit leaving very scattered and distanced points of the light that is reflected and all other points are scattered all over the place... so the observer eye does not have enough points of the original object to "assemble" its reflections. No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kula66 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Kuky, totally agree! Far too much reflections on high, you very rarely see the sea looking like a mirror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid6dot7 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) Wether the reflections in DCS are exaggerated or not... Regarding any of the here shown real pictures: Think about that most of semi-/professional photographers (obviously most of the pictures here are taken by those) have polarisation and some UV/IR-filters attached to the cameras objective lenses. Pol-filters will reduce any kind of reflection, some more or less, depending on the lights angle of incidence and type (polarized/non-polarized/natural lightning...). UV/IR-Filters changing the contrast in pictures and can dampen reflections to some degree. What I was driving at? You can't use photographs as comparision for reflections (as well many other topics), unless you know that no above mentioned filters were used! Edited December 31, 2010 by Sid6dot7 Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 @ 3.4 Ghz | 12 GB RAM (DDR3-1600) | Nvidia Geforce GTX660 Ti/2GB (Driver Ver. 381.65 ) | ASUS P8Z77-V LE Plus | SB Audigy 2 ZS (kxProject 3552) | Samsung SSD 830 Series (Sys: 64GB, DCS+other: 128GB) | Saitek X52 Pro + TM MFDs | TIR4: Pro (TIR 5.4.1.26786 Software) | Windows 10 Pro (x64, non Anniversary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geskes Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Regardless of the fact that they are over the top, if you do not like the reflections you can put water on medium or low. How about that.:thumbup: 1 I7920/12GBDDR3/ASUS P6T DELUXE V2/MSI GTX 960 GAMING 4G /WIN 10 Ultimate/TM HOTAS WARTHOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) UV and IR filters are not in visible specturm right, so why should they change how camera captures visible light of the image... those filters are used to filter out things like lensflare I believe. @ Geskes... that's what I had it set to already Anyway, I just wanted to share this and maybe developers will one day make changes for the better representation, you can hate me for bringing it up, I don't care, fact is a fact and it shouldn't hurt to get the ideas out even if they seem to be critical in nature Edited December 31, 2010 by Kuky No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid6dot7 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) UV/IR has influence on sensors of digital cameras. Through interference it can dampen or amplifying sensitivity for other wavelengths. But what I've twisted was, that UV/IR in most cases amplifies "reflections" from intense light sources, which can result in unwanted reflexes. But they're unlike water reflections. The objective itself has an influence aswell. High focal distances damping, low focal distance objectives, like wide angle ones, amplifying reflections. Because wide angle ones are capturing more light of different angles, so the area for capturing reflections is wider. Anyway, I just wanted to share this[...]you can hate me for bringing it up, I don't care, fact is a fact and it shouldn't hurt to get the ideas out even if they seem to be critical in nature It's okay to mention that and think about. But aswell you (one...no offense intended ;)) need to think about how to proof your assumptions and keep aware of influences on your proofs. It's the same with video proofs. In most cases too many facts are unknown, so it's not a reliable source at all. Edited December 31, 2010 by Sid6dot7 Intel Xeon E3-1240 V2 @ 3.4 Ghz | 12 GB RAM (DDR3-1600) | Nvidia Geforce GTX660 Ti/2GB (Driver Ver. 381.65 ) | ASUS P8Z77-V LE Plus | SB Audigy 2 ZS (kxProject 3552) | Samsung SSD 830 Series (Sys: 64GB, DCS+other: 128GB) | Saitek X52 Pro + TM MFDs | TIR4: Pro (TIR 5.4.1.26786 Software) | Windows 10 Pro (x64, non Anniversary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted December 31, 2010 Author Share Posted December 31, 2010 (edited) oh you think I have no proof? No offence but I have been on the sea many times and I have seen what it looks like... and so have others and it looks pretty much like in those photos and my eyes are not using any UV/IR filters... also I tried to explain that rippled water and with waves cannot make those reflections as can be seen in game when water is set to high, but maybe you missed that... that is pretty basic optics geometry Edited December 31, 2010 by Kuky No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassata Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 You can't argue with preference. Some people like red, some blue. Are people with high end cards seeing an FPS advantage going from med to low water? 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainSail Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 so instead of developers "wasting" time in coding such effects which in game does look nice at time and makes your jaw drop on the floor... but it's not actually realistic feature at all... only of very calm waters like of the lake can you see such reflections... and Black sea is not such so I think it should not be represented like that... and what's worse... the effects are using CPU/GPU cycles... I personally would like to see only slight shadowing of the clouds but it should be very uneven... not like a mirror. So set it to low or medium, problem solved. I like how the water looks on high realistic or not, personally i dont care. :pilotfly: Win10-X64, I5,-8600K oc-4,8Ghz, 16GB DDR4, MSI RTX 2080ti, HOTAS Warthog, MFG crosswind pedals, KW-908 Jetseat , HTC Vive with lens mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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