Pls. help with shkval lock/unlock/relock (for hitting multiple targets in one pass)

[JohnSmith]

When a target is locked (showing "AC" on the screen) the manual says that:"If the incorrect object is locked, move the acquisition frame to the correct target with the [;], [,], [.] and [/] keys."

However in my case when a target is locked no matter how much I press ;,./ (actually I have these 4 keys mapped on my X45) I can't break the lock: the acquisition frame keeps following the target and the screen keeps showing "AC". I could live with this by paying attention to lock the right target from the beginning, so that once locked I don't have to unlock.

But the problem gets bigger when trying to hit multiple targets in a single pass. After the first target is hit, the screen usually switches from "AC" to "KC", but the acquisition frame still locks on the target I already hit and if I try to use ;,./ (or the joystick) to move the acquisition frame over the next target I still can't do it, even if the screen shows "KC" not "AC"! The most I can do (if I'm lucky) is to change the lock to the next target in the column when it passes the target I already hit (probably because when the targets are close enough the acquisition frame is wiling to "snap" to the other one).

Using the unlock button/key is not of much help because in this case I lose not only the "AC" but also the "KC" so I'm no longer ground stabilized and I'm lost.

I saw Ironhand's tutorial about hitting multiple targets in a single pass and Han's demo mission about column hunting, they are both excellent, looks like they have no trouble moving the lock from one target to another, but in my case it just doesn't work.

[coldcrew]

Weird, the manual is right. You should be able to move the target designator even after AC with little trouble. You can try breaking lock by increasing the size of the TD box. I must say that if you can't move the TD after you get a KC then you should check if your keys are working at all :)

[cueceleches]

I agree with Coldcrew. I have the TD assigned to my hotas microstick and I can still move it even if it´s locked on a target. Try remapping them to other keys or other joystick switches in order to make sure it is not a joystick programming problem.

[Weta43]

Those keys are accelerated - if you just tap them they nudge, but if you hold them down they go faster. I also use the default keys (I used to use the joystick hat switch but appart from a nast tendency to open the comms menu by hitting the next key over this is more accurate & easier ) to move the designator & yes if you just nudge it it will re-lock on the original target, but if you hold the key down it will let go (suddenly & race off if you're not careful, but that's another problem...)

[Alfa]

When a target is locked (showing "AC" on the screen) the manual says that:"If the incorrect object is locked, move the acquisition frame to the correct target with the [;], [,], [.] and [/] keys."

However in my case when a target is locked no matter how much I press ;,./ (actually I have these 4 keys mapped on my X45) I can't break the lock: the acquisition frame keeps following the target and the screen keeps showing "AC". I could live with this by paying attention to lock the right target from the beginning, so that once locked I don't have to unlock.

But the problem gets bigger when trying to hit multiple targets in a single pass. After the first target is hit, the screen usually switches from "AC" to "KC", but the acquisition frame still locks on the target I already hit and if I try to use ;,./ (or the joystick) to move the acquisition frame over the next target I still can't do it, even if the screen shows "KC" not "AC"! The most I can do (if I'm lucky) is to change the lock to the next target in the column when it passes the target I already hit (probably because when the targets are close enough the acquisition frame is wiling to "snap" to the other one).

Using the unlock button/key is not of much help because in this case I lose not only the "AC" but also the "KC" so I'm no longer ground stabilized and I'm lost.

I saw Ironhand's tutorial about hitting multiple targets in a single pass and Han's demo mission about column hunting, they are both excellent, looks like they have no trouble moving the lock from one target to another, but in my case it just doesn't work.

 

As explained already, you just need to hold down the target designator slew keys for a short while in order to get the designator to unlock. The Shkval system has an auto-lock function, which will "snap" onto a target in close vicinity of the target designator - so this is why you see it switch from an already destroyed target to new one passing close by it.

 

One little additional note,

 

The Shkval TV needs to be told the approximate target size in order to be able to lock on to it. In most cases this is not necessary, as the default value of "10"(indicated at the top of the TV display) corresponds to that of a vehicule like a tank or a truck, but if you are targeting e.g. a static C-130 at an airfield, it may be necessary to increase the pre-set target size to a higher value.

 

- JJ.

[Wild.Bill.Kelso]

1) The Manual also talkes about pressing Shift-O to get the distance/range to the target by using the laser beam. And it also talks about laser beam riding missles. Is this the same laser beam used for both these purposes? Or is there some 'fake' forward observer that is lazering a target for the laser beam riding missles?

 

2) When do you need to keep a target locked up after fireing a missle, and when can you just fire, forget, and attack a new target right away? I assume this depends on the missle, but just would like to clarify.

 

Thanks M8...

[coldcrew]

All the ML weapons; 29L, 25ML, 25L and Vikhr require you to keep the target locked and laser on until the target is destroyed. The 29T is fire and forget. The anti radar weapons 58 and 25MPU are also fire and forget

[JohnSmith]

Holding down the slew keys doesn't help

 

I was trying by holding down the slew keys for a long time, but I still couldn't break the lock.

Also it looks like the lock key doesn't work for me when I try to lock the ground (KC) nearby the targets. Initially I thought that it's because the image moves to fast to allow a lock, but now I realized that even if I keep the plane very steady aiming somewhere nearby the targets, I still can't lock the ground (KC). I can only lock a target (AC) if I move over it, but this is most likely the autolock working, not my Tab key.

I didn't touched the default keyboard mapping (I only changed the mapping for my joystick) and the Tab works without problems when locking in a2a or antiradar.

Once I reach home, I'll completely remove both lomac and lockon, then install them fresh using only defaults, try again and let you know.

 

Thanks everybody!

[Joe]

1) The Manual also talkes about pressing Shift-O to get the distance/range to the target by using the laser beam. And it also talks about laser beam riding missles. Is this the same laser beam used for both these purposes? Or is there some 'fake' forward observer that is lazering a target for the laser beam riding missles?

It is the same laser.

[JohnSmith]

Works ok after reinstalling everything

 

It was a weird problem but it's gone after reinstalling everything.

Now, with Shkval working like it's supposed to, I was also able to kill 4 M2s in one pass with 5 missiles.

It's clear however that laser beam riding is not as accurate as the "classical" laser illumination.

[Roman G]

It's clear however that laser beam riding is not as accurate as the "classical" laser illumination.

 

I am not an expert but I don't think the skhval missile is actually "riding the beam". I don't see how it would physically be able to do it. I think it just navigates itself on the point illuminated by the laser ...

[Weta43]

I agree - If it were actually riding the beam it would get lost when you change targets (unless it had a VERY big array of sensors on the back)

[Alfa]

The Vikhr is a laser beam riding missile.

 

It works by, via rear facing sensors, picking up the changing direction of laser "bursts" emitted from launching aircraft. This system provides greater engagement range and the ability to chase down moving targets.

 

So it is a different type of laser guidance to the one, where the missile(or bomb), via a nose mounted seekerhead, looks forward and home on laser energy being "bounced" of a target.

 

- JJ.

[coldcrew]

In the manual it says the vikhr has an 80% chance of hitting. My experiences with it shows if you move the laser while the missile is in flight your chance of hitting drops slightly. If you fire from less than 4km you will miss about 50% of the time

[Force_Feedback]

Please keep in mind that the Vikhr was designed as a cost effective guided weapon to engage "cheap" targets like supply convoys (no, the "terrorists" weren't the priority in the eighties), this is why is has 2d controls, thus hampering its effectiveness compared to laser reflection guided ordnance. But as stated before, it does have a range advantage over the reflective method and makes it possible to shoot the missile from a tanks' barrels.

 

You really should watch some vids taken by high speed cameras showing the laser pulsing on the target, you'll be amazed how precise those things are, especially considering that the lasing aircraft is kilometers away and constantly moving.

[Roman G]

Excuse my earlier ignorance about laser beam-riding. I checked the manual and also did some research on internet and there is actually such a thing as laser-beam-riding. The missile sensor(s) is not in the missile head but on or near to missile tail fins. Sources are sying that this system is much more resistant to counter-measures than laser illumination.

 

Still I don't know how this works from physics point of view. Does the missile actually see the beam (because I don't think any missile would be able to ride exactly-on-the beam - especially Vikhr with it's spiral flightpath) or the beam is diffused with greatest intensity in it's center so the missile detects intensity difference and tries to keep itself near the center of the beam ?

[Joe]

I assume the laser fires in a burst pattern that is different at the edges than it is in the middle. That way the missile can receive a signal "target is right of current heading" or "target is left of current heading".

[Roman G]

I assume the laser fires in a burst pattern that is different at the edges than it is in the middle. That way the missile can receive a signal "target is right of current heading" or "target is left of current heading".

 

So the laser beam moves that it illuminates cone or pyramide-shaped volume in space instead of illuminating just a point in space ? That plus what you said actually would be explaining how it might work (even if for a rotating Vikhr missile it might be hard to tell whether it is left or right from the beam (unless it has inertial sensor inside, I don't know) - it might use different algorithm which might tell it whether it moves away or into the beam). Thanks !

[Joe]

I'm just guessing, but it theoretically makes sense. You're right about the left/right difficulty when the missile body spins.