Easier method to air refuel and general questions on Air to Air refuelling

[hollywoody]

Great tips!

 

What mission is best to use for practicing air refueling?

[hassata]

Wiggle your toes.

[SonofEil]

Great tips!

What mission is best to use for practicing air refueling?

 

Make one.

My first refueling attempts were in a simple mission I made with just me and the tanker. The tanker has 100nm between waypoints at 18,000ft. I placed myself a few nm away at 14,000 ft, found tanker and then spent a few days trying to connect with him! I eventually got pretty good at it...until I got a TM Warthog! I'm having to relearn with the more sensitive stick. I'll probably have to put in some deadzones or curves, as suggested in other posts.

[SimFreak]

Wiggle your toes.

 

 

 

!!! True that!

[aaron886]

Wiggle your toes.

 

VERY true, that. :)

[andysim]

well my X52 has an awfull center point and its very hard for me to get a small correction, it just seems like I will never get more than a 1000bls of fuel without crashing into the tanker. Guess I should get me a WH stick but they are so expensive =(. I have found that turning off TrackIR while on the tanker and using a view that lets me see the tail and the HUD helps a lot but im really growing tired of my hopeless x52 :cry:

[DocSigma]

It's probably the toughest thing to pull off on a regular basis and even tougher without a precision stick. I use a Warthog and still with the precision of all it's axis it's still really difficult. The only advice I can give you ( and take this with a grain of salt from someone who is not nearly as good at it as some others on the boards) do whatever it takes to eliminate any lack of precision in your flight stick, don't guide on the refueling boom but rather on the tanker, and most importantly..... practice, practice, practice until your sick of mid air refueling.

[shagrat]

hey, what outfit is it? nice looking ...

 

23rd FW with the Sharks teeth and 23rd England without... It is the original European 1 camo planned back then when the A-10 was intented for fighting back the Warsaw Pact troops in Germany :smartass:

[zamboni]

Last night I tried practicing some refueling for the first time. The main problem I had was matching the tanker speed. For some reason it seemed like the tanker was flying at 246.5 and my plane would either fly at 246 or 247.

 

My old cougar has a little slop at the middle so it was causing a slight bit of problems. I had everything trimmed as good as it could get and I would creep forward at 247 level, then try to drop back and match at 246, but that 1 kt difference was enough to cause a slight bit of lift loss, so it was a fight.

 

The best I could do was instead of working the stick up and down, was to use the throttle to do the work up/down + forward/aft. When I had everything lined up well I creeped in at 247, and at the point where I seemed to get a slight bit too far forward I would then drop throttle slightly and pump it back forward to try to stay stationary (to match that 246.5 the tanker was going). I basically took my hands off the stick so I wouldnt screw things up.

 

When I started pumping the throttle to keep pace, it would connect. When connected I would train my eye on the point where the pipe came out of the tail boom. On the stick I would only do left right slight corrections, and if I would get high/low I would use the throttle to help correct....I tried not to move the stick up and down.

 

I got it to the point where I could get maybe a 3/4 top off before it would disconnect, but I am getting better :).

 

Also, I need to take my throttle apart because the AB detent for my stick is right where I needed to move my throttle back and forth to match the tanker.

[bradleyjs]

Wonder if this would help - try adding a very "little" speed-brake and keep on the power a bit... And, I do have the TM WH HOTAS... worth the extra $$$ overall

 

Edit: Personally, I've never performed aerial refueling - but have done formation flying (long time ago in the USAF) - but give a try... WTH

Edited January 31, 2011 by bradleyjs

[vCUJOv]

Don't chase the boom.

[andysim]

ive acutualy found it usefull to add a small amount of speedbrake because there is a notch on the x52pro throttle thats just where I need to be adjusting the throttle (its anoying aint it?) Adding speedbrake means i need more power for the same speed and thus allows me to move over the notch.

 

I would love to remove the notch all together but dont want to take the throttle apart (i have a history since i was 3 of taking things apart and not being able to reasemble)

 

Attached is a track that I managaed to take fuel from 4300 to 8800! took some time and was very slopy but I did it. At one point (5min50s the tanker suddenly climbs for what ever reason, mission alt was set for 7000 and it jusps to 8000 but i stayed with it heh.

Edited January 31, 2011 by andysim

[bradleyjs]

>>I would love to remove the notch all together but dont want to take the throttle apart (i have a history since i was 3 of taking things apart and not being able to reasemble)

 

I had that problem too LOL! - but I would draw diagrams of the components then reassemble... Now, with digital camera technology - it's easier to take snapshots then use that to put it back together... Not a perfect solution, but has helped to "make" it work as designed... GL

[digitaljjd]

It's really simple to remove, there are instructions on the net with pictures if I recall. I took mine out, after suffering for few years with it in place.

[andysim]

thanks for that tip Digitaljjd. I went ahead and removed the notch following advice I found on google, my throttle is now smooth from 0 to 100%. Also after messing around a bit I managed to get a better respose from my stick and I managed after much practice to take on 5000lbs of fuel with only 1 disconect! :megalol:

 

I noticed though air refueling does not show up on the pilots log is this the same for everyone? I topped off my tanks at 9200lbs and the tanker said refueling was complete.

[ToWcH]

Getting to the point of contact is quite easy, keeping the aircraft in position while fuel is transferred is where my problems start :P

loll...i just got the contact part down "am not saying that i do i u one swoop in") but yea, the plane appears to swing when attached :(

for x52 user i believe raising the brakes about 40% helps with the bloody throtle nude.

so far, i have been connected for 10secs....i can do this!

Edited February 3, 2011 by ToWcH

[andysim]

loll...i just got the contact part down "am not saying that i do i u one swoop in") but yea, the plane appears to swing when attached :(

for x52 user i believe raising the brakes about 40% helps with the bloody throtle nude.

so far, i have been connected for 10secs....i can do this!

 

 

Grab a screw driver hehe. Remove the 8 screws on the bottom of the throttle, (2 of the screws are under the rubber feet so you will have to replace them =() No need to touch anything inside as the only bit you need to look at is the base. There should be a little plastic part sticking up from the inside of the base. You will know its the right one cause its all sticky with the lube they use and has a spring on it when you pull it out.

 

Replace base and you are done. No more notch :pilotfly:

[macedk]

Also (i hope i doesn't sound too jedi)

 

Feel the jet....when U concentrate then U can almost hear you engine changes.

 

Once U get the state, then U concentrate more on what your arms, ears are doing. You eyes are, most of the time, your worst enemy, Due to they tend to want to follow the wrong thing.

 

As the wize ones said "free you mind and the rest will follow" :).

 

and yes i'll go back and make a vid as (almost promised).

[kaiserb_uk]

I only tried refueling yesterday after reading this thread. "How hard can it be?" I asked myself, "flipping noobs!" I chuckled...

 

Holy hell that's hard. In 2 sessions and over 30 minutes flying I managed about 20 seconds of contact and took on approximately a pint and a half of fuel.

 

If someone could ask the tanker pilot to get his speedo calibrated and then to fly at EITHER 246 OR 247 knots that would be brilliant.

 

Nurse!

[sorcer3r]

at first i didnt thought that refueling would work with my old x45. but dead zone + curves helps... a bit. ;)

 

but still hard work:

 

:joystick:

Edited April 5, 2011 by sorcer3r

[StrongHarm]

On Axis Tuning:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=69965

[SimFreak]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3181839/Quick_picture_guide_refueling.html#Post3181839 Maybe this topic might help...

 

Biggest take - disable trackIR during AR.

[hassata]

f someone could ask the tanker pilot to get his speedo calibrated and then to fly at EITHER 246 OR 247 knots

 

Don't hold your breath. The pr*ck has it in for us-frustrated fighter jock and all that.

[x4nPro]

The trick is -> Do not look at the fuel boom!

Level slightly below the tanker and move forward until you are connected.

 

Train to get connected and you will get a feeling about how high / low you have to be. This results in "seesaw" will be lesser and longer connections.

 

Next step, night training-lessions ;)

[Zomba]

At first I was always lucky to get more than 5-10 seconds on the boom until I changed the way I went about things and now can hang off the tanker for as long as I want filling from almost empty to full internal and 2 external tanks.

 

I use a standard x52 that's a little bit tired, so if I could do it on that then so can anyone.

 

First really match the tanker in flight. Not just zoom up, throw out brakes and somewhat join him in a drunken Waltz over Georgia. Get right up underneath and very close and setup so that you will stay there with minimum effort on the stick. I often just sit there for a minute or two just matching the tanker before moving over for a connection.

 

Listen to the engine, after a while you will get an ear for the sweet spot that seems to be natural neutral for matched speed.

 

I imagine an invisible glide scope projecting out from the boom at the same down angle. This is the glide scope that I am allowed to move on. So, along with roll to remain aligned, I can either go in/up or down/back, and nothing else.

 

Move up this glide scope to connect to the boom.

 

You will find there is this sweet spot where throttle and trim just match to make you neutral to the tanker. Once you find this spot it's really just using the throttle to move up/forward and move down/back. Using the throttle like this and nothing else will naturally cause the aircraft to stick to the allowed glide scope. After a bit all you are really doing is just twitching the throttle infront of and behind the neutral spot to keep the boom in the green.

 

With throttle and roll the main thing is to anticipate the corrective action needed. Things seem to happen with a fair bit of lag so making the corrections early work better.

 

Another thing I found helps is don't look at any one thing in particular. There is no single spot on the tanker that can give you all the information your brain needs to maintain position. With TrackIR I just look up a little and stare out to infinity and letting your whole vision get everything your brain needs. I found this helps to kill of the dreaded pilot induced oscillations that creep up on you as soon as you hook up. Don't stare at the boom, it lies to you.

 

Have fun. :)