Experiences with AMD 64x2/SLI gfx cards

[dr_glacier]

Hi all!

 

Due to unexpected financial windfall, I am currently about to upgrade my computer to feed my rampant Flaming Cliffs habit.

 

In the processor department, I am torn between a conventional AMD 64 4000+ and one of the new AMD 64 x 2 dual core processors. However, avaliable litterature on the net suggests that only 2 out of 3 curent titles will benefit from dual-core as dedicated support is apparently needed. Does anyone have experience with dual core processors and LOMAC:FC?

 

Several motherboard manufacturers now ship premium boards with options to install 2 graphics cards in SLI. Litterature suggests that this will improve 3D performance at high resolutions, but postings on various boards claim that LOMAC is more demanding of processor than graphics card. Does anyone have good/bad experiences with SLI and LOMAC:FC?

 

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated!

 

Dr_glacier

 

PS. Hats off for Eagle Dynamics for exceptional work on Flaming Cliffs!

[Orao]

Lomac is demanding in CPU departement as well as in video card department. As far as SLI mode is concerend, if you are about to buy a SLI card I strongly suggest you to take a look at new ATI SLI solution known as Crossfire.

http://www.ati.com/products/crossfire/features.html

ATI solution dosen't require any kind of dedicated script or programing for a particulary game to use the SLI solution.

 

However this solution will greatly limit your choice of motherboard since crossfire needs a co-processor for SLI. This can be seen as a drawback. But, the main advantage is financial one.

 

Once you have bought a Crossfire dedicated card and the motherboard with crossfire co-processor you can plug in any card you want going from X800 to X850XT Platinium edition. If you think that you need to change your video card, in order to continue to benefit from SLI solution all you have to do is to change a single card and it will still work in SLI mode afterwards.

 

To make it short :

 

NVIDIA SLI solution = Any motherboard but two identical video cards are needed. The software is needed for SLI to function with particulary game.

 

ATI SLI solution = Motherboard with crossfire co-processor + crossfire video card. Single video card from X800 to X850 PE will allow you to benefit from SLI solution. You don't need lets say 2 X800. SLI solution works with every single game. No software is needed for SLI to function.

 

And SLI solution benefits greatly to rendering, but the AI will bring your rig to its knees since the LO engine is tracking every objet in the worldspace even if you can't see it on the portion of the map you are fling over.

 

 

I hope that this helps you to make your choice.

[Joe]

http://www.simhq.com/_technology/technology_041b.html

[dr_glacier]

Back to the drawing board...

 

Thanks Orao! Thanks Joe!

 

Very helpful comments. The crossfire technology certainly seems more attractive than NVIDIA SLI, but is unfortunately not avaliable for several months yet. If I'm always gonna wait for the latest technological advance, I'll never get around to do the actual upgrade. The limitations of the NVIDIA SLI makes me unlikely to buy it, unless someone reports great performance on LOMAC specifically.

 

Further, it is a bit disappointing that (at least Intel) dual-core processor apparently will not confer any benefit to LOMAC.

 

I will procrastinate for a few weeks, but unless any new, sensational information surfaces, I will probably just go for an AMD 64 4000+ and an ATI Radeon X850 XT 256 Mb. Even though it will not be the bleeding edge of technology with dual-core processor and crossfire SLI, it will still be way better than my current AMD 2200+ and ATI Radeon 9600 !

 

Thanks for all advice so far, I am still hoping someone will come forward with personal experiences of LOMAC and SLI.

 

Regards,

dr_glacier

[Nate Dogg]

If your after insight to nvidia SLI ask dutch60, he has dual ultras and an fx-55, runing 1.1 at max settings/vis med i think, with 4aa and 8af.......wait for it 1600*1200!!!!

And most of the time very playable frames. I think he has mentioned once or twice that he has in some cases droped down a resolution in heavy missions. But generally at 1600*1200.

There is a thread created by him with several screen shots off his system at these settings, rather incredible.

Cheers

[Gel214th]

Hi all!

In the processor department, I am torn between a conventional AMD 64 4000+ and one of the new AMD 64 x 2 dual core processors. However, avaliable litterature on the net suggests that only 2 out of 3 curent titles will benefit from dual-core as dedicated support is apparently needed. Does anyone have experience with dual core processors and LOMAC:FC?

 

Dr_glacier

 

PS. Hats off for Eagle Dynamics for exceptional work on Flaming Cliffs!

 

Whatever you do, AMD is the right way to go for gaming. Don't buy an Intel processor if you want to play games.

 

If you doubt me do some research at any hardware site that has done comparisions between the latest Intel chips, single or dual core, and the latest AMD Athlon/X2 processors.

 

I'll reserve judgement on what ATI's crossfire can do until after it's released to public and the reviews start coming in.

[Dutch60]

YES I PLAY IN SLI (see my sign)

 

FX-55 + 2 x GeForce 6800 Ultra

 

Lock On 1.1 FC settings

 

For viewing tracks (takes less CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1600x1200

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

 

For plaing the game (needs more CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1280x1024

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

[britgliderpilot]

FX-55 + 2 x GeForce 6800 Ultra

 

Lock On 1.1 FC settings

 

For viewing tracks (takes less CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1600x1200

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

 

For plaing the game (needs more CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1280x1024

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

 

Meh?

 

I run at 1024x768, with Water on High and Shadows a bit less . . . . but otherwise the same. Oh, and mirrors off. Mostly, it's pretty smooth - but I haven't really experimented with this new card yet to find the real best settings.

 

Can you not punch Visible Range up a bit on that combination?

I thought that was mainly CPU related - and I'm on a P4 2.8. You should be well ahead of me . . . . .

[JACN]

FX-55 + 2 x GeForce 6800 Ultra

 

Lock On 1.1 FC settings

 

For viewing tracks (takes less CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1600x1200

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

 

For plaing the game (needs more CPU power)

 

1600x1200 32bit color and 4xAA 8xAF

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1280x1024

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

 

Average fps?. I´ve read somewhere in this forum SLI config is even slower than single GPU.

 

My FX-55 O.C. + 6800 Ultra +2G RAM gives me above 40-50 fps most of the time with a simmilar graphics config.

[Dutch60]

Average fps?. I´ve read somewhere in this forum SLI config is even slower than single GPU.

 

My FX-55 O.C. + 6800 Ultra +2G RAM gives me above 40-50 fps most of the time with a simmilar graphics config.

 

Do you also use 4xAA and 8xAF

[Dutch60]

Meh?

 

I run at 1024x768, with Water on High and Shadows a bit less . . . . but otherwise the same. Oh, and mirrors off. Mostly, it's pretty smooth - but I haven't really experimented with this new card yet to find the real best settings.

 

Can you not punch Visible Range up a bit on that combination?

I thought that was mainly CPU related - and I'm on a P4 2.8. You should be well ahead of me . . . . .

 

Do you also use 4xAA 8xAF

[britgliderpilot]

Do you also use 4xAA 8xAF

 

Yep - kind of have to at 1024x768 :)

 

Curse these little TFT screens . . . . . but praise their small footprint :p

[Dutch60]

Visibility Range on High is the only FPS killer

 

I do get the heaviest FPS hits when I set Visibility Range to High and when I step in to one of the virtual cockpits.

For example when I am at maximum Lock On FC settings at 1600x1200 4xAA 8xAF and I am in the cockpit of the Su-25T I get a minimum of around 35 FPS and then switch on the TV monitor the minimum FPS drops to 22, I find it very hard to believe this has any thing to do with the GPU in fact I am totally convinced this is due to the lack of CPU power that my FX-55 brings to the table.

[Dutch60]

You could take a look at my screenshots

 

Lock On FC 1600x1200 32bit color 4xAA 8xAF

 

Part 1 - http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8487

Part 2 - http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8488

Part 3 - http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8489

Part 4 - http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=8490

 

Graphics

Textures = High

Scenes = High

Terrain Preload = 100 Km

Water = Medium

Haze = Advanced

Light = All

Visibility Range = Medium

Effects = High

Heat Blur = On

Shadows = Full

Color = 32 bits

Resolution = 1600x1200

 

Cockpit

Mirrors = Low

Reflections = On

[Dutch60]

Sorry I have to make on correction to all the Lock On FC setting I posted previously.

I am not running on Water = Medium but I am running Water = High.

[Roman G]

Glacier, I am not sure how long you are planning to keep the box you are going to buy. If it is let's say two years and ED will in six months release patch which will enable full multiple cores utilisation - which will almost double performance on multicore/dual processor rig when running LOMAC - how will you mentally cope with your then-six-months old CPU decision ? ;)

 

Don't forget another scenario, you buy multicore box now and after two/three years LOMAC still does not support multicore/CPU boxes ? Hopefully some other games MIGHT support it (again not certainity that they will) ...

 

I think at this point - without any word from ED about their plans to support multicode/CPU boxes - your decision is just a bet :).

[JACN]

Do you also use 4xAA and 8xAF

 

2xQAA & 4xAF

[Joe]

If it is let's say two years and ED will in six months release patch which will enable full multiple cores utilisation - which will almost double performance on multicore/dual processor rig when running LOMAC - how will you mentally cope with your then-six-months old CPU decision ? ;)

I seriously doubt ED will patch FC so that it magically has a large performance boost on dual cores. It is a major recoding taks to direct things to multiple threads.

 

I will probably just go for an AMD 64 4000+ and an ATI Radeon X850 XT 256 Mb.

Nothing wrong with that; I think you'll be quite pleased.

[Roman G]

I seriously doubt ED will patch FC so that it magically has a large performance boost on dual cores. It is a major recoding taks to direct things to multiple threads.

 

That depends on what is actually "eating" CPU time in LOMAC. If let's say 5% of code (for example collision detection plus visibility detection - like whether object A (radar) can see object B (plane) ) eats 80% of CPU than it might not be that hard to change that 5% of code to run in multiple threads and you will get about 65% performance boost.

 

If LOMAC modules consume CPU more or less evenly - then supporting multicore/CPU could be really a major task.

[dr_glacier]

I am no coder, but concur with Joe that it is doubtful that LOMAC will support dualcore in the near future.

 

However, what I gather from various hardware sites are mostly rave reviews for dualcores. It seems that future high-profile and high-performance games (Doom/Quake/Halflife/Farcry-franchises) will be developed with dualcore support, simply because of their superior performance. As such, if I decide to go dualcore I do so knowing that it will not benefit LOMAC but future titles of interest. Further, I assume that an AMD 64x2 4400+ will at least not perform less than an AMD 64 4000+.

 

LOMAC:FC is not unplayable on my current rig, and regardless of which solution I choose things will only get better! :D

 

Regards,

dr_glacier

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I am not going to guess whether or not ED will upgrade FC for dual core procesors.

 

However, I will buy dual core for christmas. And it will be AMD dual core because I already have a mobo for it and because as it looks like at this point, it is a superior solution over Intel.

 

I hope ED will eventually upgrade their FC engine for dual core. That is the only way to go with this CPU hungry game.

[firesoldier845]

FWIW I'm running a 4000+ single core but I have a 6800Ultra. I upgraded from a P4 3.2 and saw a really nice boost in fps. With the LOD ground unit patch also made a big time performance increase.

 

I'm not going to say LOMAC never bogs down, it can sometimes get a little choppy over the big cities but overall fps are great and I'm not using any fps hacks or tweaks other than force feedback turned off. I think a +4000 is a good chip for LOMAC IMHO. Most of my settings are on high or medium and the visuals are great. FWIW, I had a +3800 and had to return it due to a defect and I had some extra cash so went for the +4000. Fps and settings were the same and I can't really tell any difference in performance between the +3800 that I had for a few days and the +4000 that I replaced it with. In fact, you could probably save some cash going with a +3800, other's will disagree with me but I owned both and can tell you fps is negligible if any difference at all - 1-2 fps. I never officially benchmarked, but trust me when LOMAC bogs down it will bog down on FX-55, +4000 or +3800. If I could do it over again I would have saved $200+ and just got another +3800 - probably best bang for buck IMHO.

[Squid]

FWIW I'm running a 4000+ single core but I have a 6800Ultra. I upgraded from a P4 3.2 and saw a really nice boost in fps. With the LOD ground unit patch also made a big time performance increase.

 

 

What's the LOD ground unit patch ?

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

the lod patch is incorporated into the 1.12a patch, it makes less of a fps hit when vehicles are viewed from a distance i believe, it could be the other way about, but basically, it gives you a few more fps while viewing ground targets.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]