SU33 Carrier landing tips

[dooom]

What are your recommendations for consistency? i.e. landing speeds, airbrake in/out, flaps in/out, AoA etc?

[Case]

Hit the IP of the glide slop at the right altitude, speed and heading, then keep throttle at 80%, lower gear, flapsm and airbrake where necessary to keep the speed at 300 km/h. Then roll the plane as usual, but use trim in pitch to stay on the glide path to follow the needles in the ADI.

[mvsgas]

One thing that helps me is not attempting to land until fuel is below 4 tons. For some reason, anything above that, becomes more likely to get damaged on landing.

[DarkFire]

Also bare in mind that with a big, fairly heavy aircraft like the Su-33, especially that close to the aircraft's stall speed, that the throttle will have a magnified effect on your descent rate and that the pitch of the aircraft will have a magnified effect on your speed. It can almost seem like the throttle controls the sink rate rather than your speed and that the pitch angle controlls the speed rather than the sink rate.

 

My best advice is to use smooth, small control inputs and stay on course and on glide slope. It's also very easy to get so ingrossed in flying an accurate descent that you forget to lower the gear or the tail hook. I've done both and it's most embarassing!

 

Finally, don't be afraid to pull up and go around if you think things arn't going well.

 

Edited to add: I've found that it helps to fly the approach with the speedbrake deployed. Yes you'll need a higher throttle setting for a given descent rate & airspeed, but if you miss the wires your engines will be closer to maximum thrust thus making a wave off less dangerous.

Edited January 15, 2011 by DarkFire

[mikoyan]

watch this video and learn from the pros.

 

 

 

posted by tusler on the video section.

 

300km/h is ok for the approach but you want to be slower than that before touching the carrier. Is a shame that lock-on does not simulate waves, carrier landing would be out of this world!

[Wolf Rider]

 

Also bare in mind that with a big, fairly heavy aircraft like the Su-33, especially that close to the aircraft's stall speed, that the throttle will have a magnified effect on your descent rate and that the pitch of the aircraft will have a magnified effect on your speed. It can almost seem like the throttle controls the sink rate rather than your speed and that the pitch angle controlls the speed rather than the sink rate.

 

 

 

That's what meant to happen...

 

Bringing the nose up will expose more of the underplane to the direction of travel so it acts like a brake.

Increasing engine thrust will push the plane up

[dooom]

what AoA is ideal for the su33 landing?

[Cali]

what AoA is ideal for the su33 landing?

 

Whatever the circles tell you to fly at. They haven't done me wrong yet, I also go by visual.

[Moa]

To get scientific about it.

 

1) If you start at the IP (RTN point) at the indicated altitude (1016 m) and near the approach speed (270 km/h), the following will work.

 

2) Correct angle-of-attack is +7 nose pitch. Trim for this. If you vary the nose too far from this the hook will not catch.

 

3) Correct descent rate is 5 m/s down (there is a white marker on the VVI at this rate). You can touch the deck up to 7 m/s without exploding. Come down faster and *B00M*! There is a 'sink rate' light near your engine dials. If that is lit and you are about to touch the desk then 'wave off' at max power (leave your gear, hook, and *especially* flaps down, in case you do touch the deck).

 

4) Adjust throttle to maintain glideslope. In FC1 the correct throttle setting was 82% fan. With more powerful engines in FC2 the setting is around 78%. Make small changes to the throttle.

 

Instruments:

* When far from the carrier use the HSI needle to line up. This will get you localized (but not precise enough to be on the deck centerline - you need the following instrument for that).

 

* When approximately on line and slope use the little white needles on the ADI for more precise adjustment (can only be used when near the correct position, but more precise than the HSI).

 

* When the white needles are centered use the AoA indexer on the HUD to make small throttle changes that will keep those white ADI needles from budging.

 

Do this and you will be able to land on the Kuzntsov *without even looking at the carrier*. You can use this technique in the dead of light (with carrier lights off) or in max fog conditions where the carrier is visible only for the last 1000 feet of approach. Note: real pilots train to do IFR in a 'heads down' manner like this (not visually looking for their destination outside the aircraft).

 

I find 'following the circle' adequate during the day but not precise enough for zero visibility traps.

 

Several big things for carrier traps on the Kuznetsov (for a 'heads down' approach that can be used in both IFR conditions, and VFR- follow these and you can be a landing 'Jedi' [blast shield down]):

 

1) Start at the correct height, distance and close to the required airspeed.

 

2) When your flaps come out there can be 'ballooning' and nose pitch up. Anticipate and counter it with a little nose down. This is worse at higher speeds so try to start close to the correct speed.

 

3) After your flaps, gear and hook are out then pitch up to +7 degrees and trim. Re-trim again if your speed changes. If you need to move the stick on the approach thenre-trim to keep that magic +7 nose pitch. Trim, trim, trim that aircraft!

 

4) Don't get fixated on solving one thing (pitch, speed, altitude, descent rate, throttle). Make an adjustment. Check another instrument. Check the result of the first adjustment and correct if necessary. Check another instrument, keep you 'insttument' scanning going the whole way down the slope.

 

5) Anticipate. If you were high and have lowered the throttle to descend slightly then put the throttle up again *before* you reach the correct glideslope. It takes time for engine changes to take effect (inertia in both the aircraft and rotataing engine turbines have to be changed by small accelerations over a finite time). If you don't anticipate you'll end up 'chasing the needles', which is not good.

 

6) There is a line running down the center of the landing deck (imagine the line starts at the farthest point at the deck and runs to the stern, and then on to you). If the line is pointing to the left then you must turn left. If the line is to the right then you must turn right. If the line appears vertical then you are good, worry about whether you are too high (use ADI white needle) or too fast (HUD Angle-of-Attack indexer).

 

7) When landing (carriers or airfields), your nose pitch (mostly) controls speed. Don't vary it. Use the throttle to change your rate of descent (and a slight effect on speed). Don't dip your nose to speed up, use your throttle instead.

 

8) Do not flare before touchdown as you would for an airfield. You descent onto the carrier without flaring (it's a 'controlled crash' really, don't worry though, carrier aircraft have landing gear specially reinforced for just this).

 

 

9) With practice you won't have to use your speedbrakes once you are on approach after the IFR. If you have your spedbrake out when you are close to the carrier then you've done something wrong earlier on. You don't want your speedbrake out if you need to go around (called a 'wave off' in Navy terms) or the arrestor cable breaks or you miss it (called a 'bolter').

 

This covers 'straight-in' landings on the Kuznetsov under all visibility conditions. US Navy style landings are considerably different. To find out about those you can google virtualnavalairops (VNAO) who do these in LockOn (disclaimer: that includes me).

 

Don't worry if you find it tough, it takes a lot of practice to master carrier landings (they are a great test of pilot skill and many online squadrons use them as part of testing candidate pilots). Keep practicing and 'fly the numbers' as I have given them. In time you won't need the 'numbers' and your own visual judgement will be sufficient - but until then, use the numbers as they are a good substitute for an experienced eye.

 

Note: mission designers, carriers never have cross-winds (unless their steering is damaged). They can always turn into the wind for takeoff and recovery, and steam at full speed while they are doing so.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Moa

[RIPTIDE]

^^ Moa delivers.

[FLANKERATOR]

And with even a lot of more experience you can end up landing this way :D

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbmRvBgGgE

[Case]

And with even a lot of more experience you can end up landing this way :D

You mean a lot of more wind instead of experience, right? :D

[FLANKERATOR]

Definitely Case :) I've also noticed that he was using only one engine, so when combined with a lot of wind, it ends up showing a very unrealistic carrier landing...too bad it's even possible to do that in a sim.