Can we get a poll up to gauge the amount of players that play online vs offline

[Komrad]

Also, an online poll would provide some seriously skewed results.

 

I keep hearing this argument and to me it makes no sense.

 

So are you saying that only players who play online read this thread and contribute to it?

 

How else do you expect to hold a poll but online, by post perhaps!!

 

 

Komrad.

[scoochy]

I think it would be safe to say that the majority of online users are also participants in an online forum. Becuase of this, there is no way to ensure the poll has a balanced community of voters between forum memebers and non-members.

 

The only method to get accurate results would be to monitor the usage of the program itself. Has the program been operated online, and for how long compared to offline.

 

Also, according to the stats on the main forums page, these forums have 25k+ members. Even if 100 percent of everyone who registered here played online, how would that compare to the total sales of DCS products?

Edited January 20, 2011 by scoochy

[Komrad]

I think it would be safe to say that the majority of online users are also participants in an online forum. Becuase of this, there is no way to ensure the poll has a balanced community of voters between forum memebers and non-members.

 

The only method to get accurate results would be to monitor the usage of the program itself. Has the program been operated online, and for how long compared to offline.

 

I think it safe to say that the majority of offline users are also members of this forum. Would you buy a product as complex as this and then not seek out the main source of help that these forums provide?

 

As for usage figures I doubt anybody has those.

 

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

He is certainly saying that if you know you will have skewed results (and it is obvious that you will have skewed results ;) ) then there is no point in having the poll.

 

All it will accomplish is have people 'knowing' the wrong information and further continuing to make posts like many of the ones above which we then have to reply to and explain.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is. This is not the first time issues like this have come up. People who don't have any insight into what's going on with a specific product cannot make the correct decisions about what should be done with the product in most cases.

 

The best part is, that when they are told 'this is how things actually are', they prefer to believe their own assumptions rather than facts from those who do the work (or those who talk to those who do the work) :)

 

I keep hearing this argument and to me it makes no sense.

 

So are you saying that only players who play online read this thread and contribute to it?

 

How else do you expect to hold a poll but online, by post perhaps!!

 

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

It is not safe, and in fact it is very, very incorrect.

 

I think it safe to say that the majority of offline users are also members of this forum. Would you buy a product as complex as this and then not seek out the main source of help that these forums provide?

 

As for usage figures I doubt anybody has those.

 

 

Komrad.

[Komrad]

It is not safe, and in fact it is very, very incorrect.

 

How so?

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

ED has the sales figures for its products, and the number of active users on the forum.

 

And that's all I'm going to say.

 

How so?

 

Komrad.

[Komrad]

ED has the sales figures for its products, and the number of active users on the forum.

 

And that's all I'm going to say.

 

Can't see how sales figures prove anything, after all those figures do not give you any idea of themselves how the product is used.

 

As to the question of active users on this forum are you saying that the majority of offline users are more inactive than players who mostly play online?

 

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

I'm saying they don't even register on this forum.

 

And if you can't see how forum users to sales figures ratio can't prove that most offline are if fact not participating on this forum, contrary to your out-of-the-blue guess, then I'm not sure what there is to talk about. ;)

[Komrad]

I'm saying they don't even register on this forum.

 

Then how on earth do they use the product?

 

If you were new to this sim would you attempt to learn the intricacies just from a PDF manual?

 

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

With all such calculations you have to make some assumptions. Suffice it to say that even with generous enough assumptions, the results stand as I've said. You can track how the product is being used by sampling in a various ways - asking directly, collecting data from lobby tpe servers, etc.

 

Then how on earth do they use the product?

 

 

No, but some people have certainly described me as an elitist, and I know for a fact that a lot of people don't take to this particular subject as I do. Just because you don't think people will do things a certain way does not mean they will not.

The have a number of options; one is to do what you have said, another is to also look for youtube videos, talk to friens, or possibly read forums without ever registering.

 

If you were new to this sim would you attempt to learn the intricacies just from a PDF manual?

 

 

Komrad.

[Scarface]

It's called they buy the software and then most stop using it soon after, so yea there are way more offline users.

 

I have a bookshelf of games, I have played them all, but only completed a few and lose interest in most of them within a month. Quite a few are from 2010. Impulse buy, or ooh that looks cool, so and so said it was good.........

 

When a profit is involved, the quantity of sales has more sway than the longevity of the product usage by the customer. It's not personal, it's just business.

[Komrad]

It's called they buy the software and then most stop using it soon after, so yea there are way more offline users.

 

I have a bookshelf of games, I have played them all, but only completed a few and lose interest in most of them within a month. Quite a few are from 2010. Impulse buy, or ooh that looks cool, so and so said it was good.........

 

When a profit is involved, the quantity of sales has more sway than the longevity of the product usage by the customer. It's not personal, it's just business.

 

Oh well, then I doubt that ED particuarly care about those users who get bored with their products so quickly

ED have their money and it's all rosy, in the business sense anyway.

 

But a lot of repeat business is generated by not only the quality of a product but also by the reputation of the developer as well as word of mouth by users.

 

I am willing to bet that ED have gained a lot of sales becuase of their loyal user base and I am sure they realise the importance of keeping fans loyal to the product brand.

 

The best way of doing this is of course listening to their user base and keeping them informed, and not in the dark, as to why certain development decisions are taken.

 

But above all I am sure what all users of ED's products want is a product which meets their simming needs, and not one that fall dissapointly short of what it could have been.

 

But I am persauded that ED love their creations as much as the people who use them and will do their utmost to keep this sim as feature rich as possible.

 

Keep the customers happy and they will come back for more. That is a sure fire winner for any business no matter what products they sell.

 

 

Komrad.

[GGTharos]

The customers are why every DCS modules offers significant improvements over the previous ... not 'just a new plane and some touch-ups' :)

 

The devs love flight sims and aviation, and this is why they're in this.

[scoochy]

Scarface has a good point. Sales figures alone will not provide the data needed when looking at the "success" of a product. Success is in quotes because it is defined differently depending on the consumer or developer/distributor.

The commitment to online playability is a heavily debated and researched topic in game development. In the end, many times it comes down to money and the return on that investment.

If the online component does not affect sales figures in a positive way to recoup the money invested in that component, it will get nixed from the development. Plain and simple.

[scoochy]

Along these same lines though, as much can be said about the true Dynamic Campaign as can be said about online.

[dane48]

There have been many good points made and I've tried to keep up with them on this thread. Also the thread about the multiplayers locked and etc. I can understand why a group going through training and testing does keep them locked. However, having never done any online flying with a combat sim (many hours with FSX group) how is someone who is tentative like me, have a chance to know what online is all about? I know there used to be invites to sit and listen in or join in a flying session without joining a squadron, but again, what about us new people out there? I've many hours in single player and enjoy it alot, but sometimes I just want to get up and fly with a real person. My good flying partner in FSX wanted to join me in A-10, but he is very ill. My other buddies I used to fly with in FSX are not interested. All the movies and pics I have sent them, they still want to mosey along (is that slang still used) in their Cessnas' . Maybe someone (maybe I will do it) should start a thread where we ask and allow newbies to have an area -and I believe it was just mentioned a couple of days ago- could hang out and fly together. I use Teamspeak but have no idea how to find or open a new channel. Anyone have any ideas?

So at this point- I remain 100% offline, but with a desire to go online. My last 6 or so checks of the servers in the last week showed me that everyone was locked. Maybe I missed an opportunity. Thanks for considerations

[GGTharos]

I suggest looking at the squadrons thread as well as the 'Squadrons flying the A-10C Hard Core' thread, and invite yourself politely. :)

 

Find a squadron whose personality matches your time/commitment constraints. They're out there, and some of them even have useful training programmes. The ones who tend to have some of the best programmes though tend to also have a bit more commitment requirements (nothing horrible, unless the c word itself scares you ;) ) for good reason: They want a bit of a return on their investment.

[scoochy]

Com....Commi.....Commmmm DYNAMIC CAMPAIGN!

 

I tried, it ends in DC every time.

 

Seeing that ED it taking what apepars to be a modular approach to these sims, perhaps the DC could be added at some point in the future. Combined with online (to stay on topic) would be a win win for both sides of the fence.

[jakef]

I play off line, but am new to this level of sims, Once I learn the game I'll get my brother hooked on it and we will play head to head. But don't think I would play on line with otheres. I started to build a simpit some moths back, only saw alot of f-16's out there , and I love the A-10 so I chose that as my pit to build. I was using FF5 then found DCS, and as luck would have it there was a fresh Beta for the A-10c and been playing it since.

 

hope this helps

[dane48]

I suggest looking at the squadrons thread as well as the 'Squadrons flying the A-10C Hard Core' thread, and invite yourself politely. :)

 

Find a squadron whose personality matches your time/commitment constraints. They're out there, and some of them even have useful training programmes. The ones who tend to have some of the best programmes though tend to also have a bit more commitment requirements (nothing horrible, unless the c word itself scares you ;) ) for good reason: They want a bit of a return on their investment.

 

 

I've looked at the squadrons, every one of them and more than twice. What I find is that you cannot join them on the server unless you "join" their squadron. I hope that makes sense. Guess what I am talking about it is a "trial" run so to speak; . How about an open time slot of a willing squadron or just some experienced online flyers that would be willing to take us newbies on? For example on January 27, and 28 for a period of a couple of hours; an invite to all who want to give it a try. A PM to someone to get the password for TS entry- and entry to the server, then just some introductions and etc. I know there may have to be restrictions on numbers because of the problems with too many pilots. After introductions; perhaps just some simple flying from point a to b without having any mission so to speak. If one has to targets they want to expend some rockets, gunfire or mavericks- maybe that could be a part of it, but nothing detailed. Just a simple indoctrination into multiplayer. Just some thoughts, it probably has been done many times in other sims. Or should we wait for a final release?

[thebigherm]

Dane, why dont you come fly with us? You don't have to be a member to fly with us. We value people that enjoy the game whether they are wearing our tag or not. We do ask, though, that you at least have teamspeak 3 and TARS, as this REALLY adds to the immersion. We are a squadron, but our members are all over the globe and we fly at pretty much all hours. We are currently building a box that will allow us to have a dedicated server for DCS A-10 and such. We are serious when it comes to flying, but not so much about time or membership. I myself am a newbie, but my members are AVID and WELL VERSED pilots both in real life and with this and other sims. We hold training events Tuesday and Thursday nights at various times. All you have to do is jump on our TS3 server and we can teach you ANYTHING you need to know.

 

Our teamspeak info is: 206.217.140.50:9987

Our website is basically locked because we have a lot of information pertaining to how we operate and such, but you are more than welcome to look it over. http://www.tf-blackjack.com

 

You can find our servers hosted under the name "76th TFS" or any variant of that name.

 

We would be glad to have you.

[element1108]

So if it comes down to it; would players sacrifice new development/modules (fighter perhaps) for a more dedicated time building a dynamic campaign or implementing more features online? Would people pay extra for these features? How much would you pay?

 

Lets talk bottom line here, it's not like ED offers NO MP features in their products. I'm quite satisfied with them generally, if they had more it probably wouldn't make much of a difference to me. If 100% of the market played exclusively online all the time I'm sure the development process would be different. Apart from MMO's there are no complex games that are exclusively online, it's generally a medium who's gameplay is centered around the lowest common denominator, if a person has a crap internet connection...their gameplay suffers heavily.

 

Whatever case any individual has about gaming online and the future etc there is an equal and obviously more powerful argument against them. Dedicated online works for simple console games who's single player component is no longer than 5 hours and which requires a monthly subscription (xbox life) to enjoy. (PS3 guys excluded of course, but also endure more lag than xbox users).

 

I don't know why I feel so strongly about this, I have thought a lot of the same things people are writing down here for online gaming, but fact of the matter is the bigger picture doesn't always take into account our beliefs/desires/gameplay preferences. We have to accept that...voice an opinion of course, but be more understanding when those who know more than us fill in the blanks we've left out.

 

Some posts I read make me feel as if there's no mp feature at all and that simply isn't the case. There is only so much a boutique developer can achieve in a given amount of time. I've seen nothing but progress in the YEARS i've been following ED products (lomac day 1) and I'm CONFIDENT the greatest things are yet to come. I love those boutique shops because frankly they're making the type of sims I want to play. If it weren't for ED, 777 Studios (i forget the russian u something initially), Madox games etc we'd have no modern day sims.

 

The trend in FPS is even starting to shift, CASUAL gamers is the new audience. Vastly more popular than the COD teen market, games require FAR less frills to produce and they sell to a wider audience across multiple platforms. Angry Birds is your worst nightmare...not MP features in DCS series ;)

Edited January 20, 2011 by element1108

[Scarface]

The big problem for many is that the ancient piece of code called falcon has base features that haven't been reproduced since at the same level, for whatever reasons, by any newer SIM.

 

I personally loved F4 and have over 350 online flight hours, but it's old and the eye candy and terrain are not even close to what we get in DCS so I feel torn. I want a DC, online flying with many pilots, and features that work offline and offline, and that purdy world outside to look at.

 

If you don't come from the Falcon world, it's much easier to ignore these things, and many do, but I can't. I have Lockon, FC1, FC2, BS, and Hog, and the one thing they all have in common for me is that I have lost interest in them all for similar reasons.

[Steel Jaw]

What I find is that you cannot join them on the server unless you "join" their squadron.

 

Not really, not with the 1st VFW anyhow: to get full FORUM access you will need to join us, but to come fly with us is easy. The Team Speak connection info is posted on the main website on the left side under NOTAMS.

 

Come introduce yourself and we will take you up with with us.

 

Let them know Mower/Bramage sent you.

 

http://firstfighterwing.com