F-15 is underpowered in FC2

[GGTharos]

There may be small excursions from the RL capabilities - the engine model isn't perfect so while it reflects the energy charts of the aircrafts correctly in the vast majority of cases, there might be small over/unders here and there.

[SovietAviator]

I would also like to know where the enemy is, radar isn't helpfull, I get a blip for about 2 second, I turn on him and hes gone, how do I increase the radar range? Atleast in LOMAC I had aircraft tags, which I understand is unrealistic, but how do I know who im shooting at if i can't see him on radar and have only a few seconds to catch a glimpse of him outside my canopy flying below me and out of sight, because when I yank to get on him at 350 knots I end up bleeding 150 knots and can only pull 4 or 5gs at most. I eventually won the last dogfight when apparently I led him into some mountains and he crashed into them. :helpsmilie:

[Mugenjin]

I would also like to know where the enemy is, radar isn't helpfull, I get a blip for about 2 second, I turn on him and hes gone, how do I increase the radar range? Atleast in LOMAC I had aircraft tags, which I understand is unrealistic, but how do I know who im shooting at if i can't see him on radar and have only a few seconds to catch a glimpse of him outside my canopy flying below me and out of sight, because when I yank to get on him at 350 knots I end up bleeding 150 knots and can only pull 4 or 5gs at most. I eventually won the last dogfight when apparently I led him into some mountains and he crashed into them. :helpsmilie:

 

Read the manual about radar operation/watch these awesome tutorials http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/a2a.htm

[mikoyan]

Just to correct a common misconception... the MiG is still the fastest accelerator in FC2.0

 

you sure; I did some test and the eagle reached mach1 faster than the mig; from take off; maybe I did the test before the correction ed did to the flight models and flaps after they released the 1.2

[mikoyan]

FSX, Iris F-15 can do super cruise with no afterburn, (not at cruise settings, full throttle) the F-15 in FC2 can't even do that. The only real chance of dogfighting in this thing is if it is at 10 thousand feet or less.

 

you'r using fsx as a guide to compare flight model correctness :megalol:

Edited January 21, 2011 by mikoyan

[GGTharos]

You shouldn't yank :)

 

You should also use MAX thrust for maximum sustained turns. In any case, you are asking about a complex subject - I suggest doing some searches on the forum for your questions to begin with, and a lot of people will chime in to help you I think :)

 

I would also like to know where the enemy is, radar isn't helpfull, I get a blip for about 2 second, I turn on him and hes gone, how do I increase the radar range? Atleast in LOMAC I had aircraft tags, which I understand is unrealistic, but how do I know who im shooting at if i can't see him on radar and have only a few seconds to catch a glimpse of him outside my canopy flying below me and out of sight, because when I yank to get on him at 350 knots I end up bleeding 150 knots and can only pull 4 or 5gs at most. I eventually won the last dogfight when apparently I led him into some mountains and he crashed into them. :helpsmilie:

[RIPTIDE]

you sure; I did some test and the eagle reached mach1 faster than the mig; from take off; maybe I did the test before the correction ed did to the flight models and flaps after they released the 1.2

I also did some tests.. although they were rolling starts (ie. Already in the air) with comparable configurations both loaded and clean, the MiG always won at medium level AND at 10,000 metric over a course of about 50 miles. I only speak about FC2.0. There's no point in speaking about any other version.

Edited January 21, 2011 by RIPTIDE

[GGTharos]

The MiG has slower acceleration up to M1, and faster after.

[RIPTIDE]

The MiG has slower acceleration up to M1, and faster after.

Yep. Agreed.

[mikoyan]

Yep. Agreed.

 

I was mistaken It was right after they released 2.0; after that they fixed the eagle if I'm not wrong.

Edited January 21, 2011 by mikoyan

[RIPTIDE]

I was mistaken It was right after they released 2.0; after that they fixed the eagle if I'm not wrong.

np S!

[dunadan]

I would also like to know where the enemy is . . . but how do I know who im shooting at if i can't see him on radar and have only a few seconds to catch a glimpse of him outside my canopy flying below me and out of sight. . .

 

I think we have the answer right there . . . flying about 95 years too late . . . maybe a nice little Fokker or SPAD would be better?

Edited January 21, 2011 by dunadan

[dunadan]

OK to add something a little more meaningful . . . the key in maneuvering is not to exceed an angle of attack that causes energy to bleed off excessively. To see how this works, build a quick mission with a clean F-15, get it down below 1000 feet, and kick off a 90 degree banked turn in full burner and about .85 mach. You (at least I) can pull 7.5Gs all day like this, and actually accelerate to slightly above Mach 1 while doing it. Now whether or not this is accurate to what the real jet can do, as someone who has tooled around in all sorts of airplanes both real and sim, this is pretty damn impressive and feels absolutely awesome!

 

Next, roll out level, point the nose up and get up to about 25K feet and do the same thing . . . get to .85 Mach, light up the afterburner and do the same 90 degree bank and pull. Watch your G and Mach meters at the bottom left of the HUD. At this altitude and air density, you can only pull about 4 - 4.5 G before the plane starts to mush and you bleed your energy all over the sky. Practice a bit so that you can pull as much as possible while keeping a stable Mach, then jump to an external view and look at your contrail (or turn on wingtip smoke) - you will see a nice small constant turning circle. That's what you can sustain in A2A combat. If you pull more than that you may get a very brief higher instant rate of turn but you'll end up with no energy and your picture stamped on the side of someone else's fuselage.

 

Obviously if you are flying in combat with missiles your G limit will be lower.

 

Welcome to the fundamentals of energy management. :book: These planes have to be flown with control and finesse at all times, especially in combat. If you learn how to do it, you will have a much greater appreciation for what it actually takes to fly these beasts.

 

I still can't help you much with the 'they go by so fast' thing though . . . :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

The peak power for the F-15 is at M0.95. You'll get to altitude a whole lot faster by pitching for 0.95. ;) This is also your corner speed above 20000' or so. Below that shoot for about 450-475kt for cornering.

[GGTharos]

Some actual F-15C charts:

 

 

[ATTACH]27999[/ATTACH]

Edited January 21, 2011 by GGTharos

[dunadan]

Thanks for the charts GGTharos! I obviously didn't look any charts up for my previous post, but as I was pulling 7.5G at about 1.1 mach below 1000' (I didn't try higher G's cause I blackout) and about 4.5G at 27K - 28K (I didn't pay that close attention to altitude nor try to maintain perfectly level flight) - both of which are smack dab in the middle of the chart you posted. So basically you are right where you should be.

 

My level of appreciation for your accomplishment with this sim has just gone up from its already appreciably high level!

 

But getting back to the original OP, I think we can all agree that SovietAviator has just been pulling on his stick too hard! :joystick:

 

 

(P.S. I get a permission error on the 36924 attachment, but can see the 27999 one fine.)

 

Some actual F-15C charts:

 

 

 

 

[ATTACH]36924[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]27999[/ATTACH]

[GGTharos]

I see why ... it's sitting in the testers section. It's the same type of chart, but for a 41000lbs aircraft (probably the one you really want, since it's the weight and drag you expect to meet an opponent with ;) )

 

At SL you can probably sustain 10-11g at 35000lbs - well, the aircraft can, you might not. In any case, supersonic maneuvering at that altitude is not good in terms of turning - your turn radius is gargantuan. If you merge with that sort of speed you want to use the vertical. Shoot for about 475kt to give you that initial pull and watch your weight ... once you drop below 40k or so you probably won't be able to slow down from 475 in a hard turn, so you'll want to modulate throttle to sustain the turn and speed.

 

At higher altitudes supersonic speed can give you surprise and/or pressure on the opponent, and an overwhelming initial instantaneous turn down to sustained speed turn. Also note that at high altitude your corner and best sustained climb are the same speed - .95M.

 

Also note that this is an old chart, I'm fairly certain in the newer ones the structural limit is up at 9g (or perhaps they are just displaying the OWS warning trigger here). In addition FC2 simulates the -220 engine which all F-15C's use now, and is more powerful than the -100. This is especially noticeable at supersonic speeds where it can do things the -100 could only do by self-destructing ;)

Edited January 22, 2011 by GGTharos

[SovietAviator]

you'r using fsx as a guide to compare flight model correctness :megalol:

IRIS is the flight dynamics creator for the aircraft, not Microsoft, you would have to commit me to a mental hospital before I claimed that Microsoft flight dynamics characteristics for anything were 100% accurate

[SovietAviator]

Also I think part of my problem is I've never used a combat flight simulator. I'm not used to energy management and basic fighter maneuvers and everything technically associated with this. I also do pull to hard on the stick and probably should tone it back a notch or 12. Although I should probably try IL-2 out since those have prop fighters which would probably be a good dogfighing trainer for me. However I'll keep trying till I get it right.

[104th_Crunch]

Try maintaining a single corner speed. The speed that gives you best continuous turn rate. Let's use say, 400 knots for the F-15 no tanks, half fuel. Turn and target that speed. Use full throttle as much as possible. If you go under that speed release some G, if you are over pull more G.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Crunch

[mvsgas]

Il-2 is also very hard in sim settings. One of many difficult things would be engine management. You have to manage your engine or the prop will get away from you and damaged the engine ( in some aircraft) I think you should do what most guys recommended. Go you tube and check out the thousands of videos about dog fighting, radar management, basic aircraft maneuvering, etc. Flanker training videos ( some are in you tube as well) will help immensely.

 

Above all have fun! SU-25 is more fun than any F-15 :D plus every f-15 driver will want to tell you "hello"...:joystick:

[GGTharos]

The basics of dogfighting are the same in IL2 andFC2. All the same rules apply, the differences are based on which airframe you're flying which tells you which maneuvers you should be striving for in general.

 

In any case, start by training yourself to pull a steady 4g turn, then a steady 7g turn - all done level and at constant speed (which means your 7g turn is limited to medium altitude or low altitude even with a clean aircraft).

 

Also I think part of my problem is I've never used a combat flight simulator. I'm not used to energy management and basic fighter maneuvers and everything technically associated with this. I also do pull to hard on the stick and probably should tone it back a notch or 12. Although I should probably try IL-2 out since those have prop fighters which would probably be a good dogfighing trainer for me. However I'll keep trying till I get it right.

[Vekkinho]

FSX, Iris F-15 can do super cruise with no afterburn, (not at cruise settings, full throttle) the F-15 in FC2 can't even do that. The only real chance of dogfighting in this thing is if it is at 10 thousand feet or less.

 

Oooh FS-X! :pilotfly:

 

IRIS got that Eagle completely messed up, for instance AoA on finals is completely unreal for any fixed wing aircraft of today 'cept mmmhm...Harrier!

[SovietAviator]

Oooh FS-X! :pilotfly:

 

IRIS got that Eagle completely messed up, for instance AoA on finals is completely unreal for any fixed wing aircraft of today 'cept mmmhm...Harrier!

 

Yay A2A is better anyway, I got their P-47 and B-17 with AccuSim. Great stuff if you like the technical aspects of flight such as engine management which im used to so I think I could get used to IL-2. Props are more fun to fly, but jet fighters are far more maneuverable.

[Jinro]

I've always thought props to be annoying--with the fuel mixture stuff.

 

That and in the real cockpit I prefer my dominant (right) hand on the yolk and the left hand on the throttle :P