HOTAS Warthog users be ware of potential short circuit

[Alex_rcpilot]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the mains supply set up?

 

Sorry I didn't quite follow you if this's not the first time you've asked. Are you talking about the way mains power supply equipment is set up in this guys room, or are you not sure what the phrase means?

[Alex_rcpilot]

I think when I was in high-school. I was told to turn the power off and unplug the source before doing any kind of electrical work? I could be wrong though? :doh:

 

Yeah but that was until the word "plug n' play" came to be.

 

And BTW, in this case even if you had turned off everything before hooking up the gear, you could still endup with a spectacular puff of smoke. :D

[Wolf Rider]

Thanks Alex_RCpilot, you may have inadvertantly answered my question on how the mains is set up in replying to Druid.

 

There is another form of mains, Single Wire Earth Return or Farm Power, as it might be known, different from a two wire single phase, or a three phase system.

[Druid_]

Ok so I have to ask, how do I (with a simple multimeter that I have) check to see if my sockets and PC are earthed correctly. I have basic electrics knowledge.

[Alex_rcpilot]

Thanks Alex_RCpilot, you may have inadvertantly answered my question on how the mains is set up in replying to Druid.

 

There is another form of mains, Single Wire Earth Return or Farm Power, as it might be known, different from a two wire single phase, or a three phase system.

 

Oh, no problem. Since my pals and I all live in urban areas, we're not familiar with SWER mains supply. Actually I wasn't aware of its existance until you've mentioned it.

[Alex_rcpilot]

Ok so I have to ask, how do I (with a simple multimeter that I have) check to see if my sockets and PC are earthed correctly. I have basic electrics knowledge.

 

AFAIK, there're improvised approaches. You may check AC voltage across PE and Live, if you're not sure which one is live, try twice with both. If you ever get the reading close to nominal supply voltage, it may suggest you have a working PE.

 

If you still suspect the PE can't carry enough current, you may connect a light bulb or something else across L and PE, instead of across L and N, if the RCD in your house trips, then it's at least capable of protecting you.

[Succellus]

AFAIK, there're improvised approaches. You may check AC voltage across PE and Live, if you're not sure which one is live, try twice with both. If you ever get the reading close to nominal supply voltage, it may suggest you have a working PE.

 

If you still suspect the PE can't carry enough current, you may connect a light bulb or something else across L and PE, instead of across L and N, if the RCD in your house trips, then it's at least capable of protecting you.

 

LOL unplug your PC and other cherrished eletrical devices first....in case it fails.

+1 for remembering me much of electricity (and way beyond) stuff i usually ignore those days.

Your explanation of geological change affecting ground wire is perfect for basic understanding.

 

Another thing people must be aware, most electrical artifacts aren t protected from reverse surge from Ground wire.(nothing is supposed to come from there)

SO, if you have a ground wire, its better be good. Because if it doesn t fries something on the spot, it will slowly eat the components. I worked with POS in comercial establishments, and had to rear slap more than one owners because they worked with heavyly spiking machines, (like industrial fridges, electrical pans and ovens) and many didn t build up separated energy circuit for more subtle electrical devices, or built a ground wire for all establishment without checking the soil property changes, and neither installed nobreaks or other protective devices.

 

The result are things that shouldn t cook ending more than raw because when the current try to adjust from a spiking demand, it gives a surge, the heavy machinery being protected, it send the surpluss trough the ground wire, but as soil has become resistent(less conductive), part of the surge is sent back to the unprotected ground wire of the equipments plugged in the same ground net (or worse i ve seen neutral giving me 45 V from bad electricity instalations).

For heavy machinery there s not much problem, but PSU, small AC/DC converters and such devices really don t like it.

Result, is silent damage up to fried silicon which ain t very edible...

 

So the rules would be:

1) if you can ground wire your equipment,

2) If you ground wire ask for checking on resistance soil property each 2 years (unless there s a lignthing strikes, or you work with heavy machinery.) or check the quality of the grounding each year at least.

3) Whatever you do, a nobreak or line filter protected from ground surge is a very good idea. (Usually those claiming protection from lightning (or with phone plugs) strikes are protected, and is they aren t the no break will end up taking the major hit, which end up protecting your equipment in some way.)

 

Druid if you want to be sure you re grounding is good, unplug first check if you have current return on your third wire (the one supposed to be ground one (check to see if your not working on triphase first, because then it ll be neutral + 2 positive - only 220-330v can be triphase)).

Then unplug all the wires from your case (all inclusive monitor), take your multireader: red on your case black on the ground hole, multireader on AC/DC weakest setting, should never read above 0,01.

Then go plugging and checking each one device separately, and keep checking the case - ground current.

If all is plugged and it doesn t goes above 0.01 then your ok. If it goes above 0.01 the you got something short circuited and freeing current, and you should check what s happening.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Succellus

[Wolf Rider]

to all, keep in mind youngsters and not so proficient people read these forums

 

 

 

when the current try to adjust from a spiking demand, it gives a surge, the heavy machinery being protected, it send the surpluss trough the ground wire, but as soil has become resistent(less conductive), part of the surge is sent back to the unprotected ground wire of the equipments plugged in the same ground net (or worse i ve seen neutral giving me 45 V from bad electricity instalations).

 

 

45v? from single or 3phase supply?

 

down here in OZ finding a 3phase driven/ delta powered anything without a neutral link (instead of Earth) is getting rare, and we're finding it is the neutral which is slowly eating itself away, even in single phase... 1. from differents metals making connection and inrush current and 2. the effect of the 3rd harmonic.

 

 

 

(check to see if your not working on triphase first, because then it ll be neutral + 2 positive - only 220-330v can be triphase)).

 

 

 

I feel sorry for you down there in Brazil... 3 different voltage supplies to contend with :cry:

 

120v (US) tapped off two legs (High Leg Delta) will give 208v

240v (AUS) tapped in the same manner will give 415v

 

240v equipment rated for three wire (E, A, N) will be underpowered if it is hooked up to a US high leg delta supply (A, A, N)

Edited January 26, 2011 by Wolf Rider

[Alex_rcpilot]

Thanks for the timely correction Succellus, I like the way this thread has developed. Hope it helps more people live a safer life.

[=McFly=]

Hello,

 

looks like something similar happened to me today. My Warthog stick has just died. Since I´m out of warranty I´ve opened it up to have a look if there´s something fried inside and indeed it was. I´ve attached a picture of the fried board. Is it the ssame part you had to replace on the dead stick? If so, what part exactly do I need to replace it? I have to admit that I have very very limited knowledge of electronics, but I´m not afraid of soldering to bring my warthog back to life. I´ve also contacted Thrustmaster support for a replacement board, but after reading about the experiences many users had with TM support I don´t expect much of them. So I´m just checking my options what I can do to repair it. Any help is appreciated.

[=McFly=]

So after asking Dr. Google I believe that FB next to the fried part should stand for "ferrite bead". But I have no idea what kind of ferrite bead it is. I don´t know if there are marking or something on the part that can identifie the type used, but since it is fried I can´t see anything that helps me identifying the part. Any idea what to use or what could work as a replacement for a ferrite bead?

[Mazzic]

the FB9 left of the charred component tells you its a blown fuse.

The fuse is in the 5V line (red wire), so it had a current rating of less than 500mA (Max. USB rating)

But I am quite sure it was rated somewhere around 100mA, because that's the current a non Root

USB hub must be providing as a minimum current.

Be advised, a fuse does not blow itself out of no reason, there is probably a more severe

root cause somewhere on your board.

The picture tells me also that the copper trace is destroyed around the component, so a simple

replacement will not do it.

 

You can try to repair it, but I think any new fuse will blow also.

 

If you want to repair it nevertheless drop me a PM for some advice how to solder it.

[Cyb0rg]

 

 

This picture is traumatic for Warthog owners :cry:

[=McFly=]

Yes, it is! But luckily I found a very helpful fellow simmer in Mazzic. He has good knowledge in electronics and offered me to have a look at my Warthog. I´ve sent him the board and he´s trying to fix it. So there´s still hope for my poor Warthog.

[Alex_rcpilot]

Yes, it is! But luckily I found a very helpful fellow simmer in Mazzic. He has good knowledge in electronics and offered me to have a look at my Warthog. I´ve sent him the board and he´s trying to fix it. So there´s still hope for my poor Warthog.

 

Well that was some serious burns. Did the stick come in contact with any suspicious metal right before it went dead, or did it just die when you were flying? If it's the former case, then you probably don't have to worry about any hidden threats, but if no particular cause comes to mind, then your friend really has something to inspect. You will also need to check for proper insulation after getting it back and trying to assemble the unit.

[Alex_rcpilot]

Ferrite beads are used to block off high frequency interference. It's rated primarily by impedance at 100MHz. So when you talk about a 50ohm ferrite bead, it means it has 50ohm impedance at 100MHz.

 

Ferrite beads have current ratings, but they are not designed to fail at certain current values. A bead may hold up quite a while even with currents higher than rated flow through it. How fast it's consumed in a blaze depends on how strong the current is. It can't be used to guard against excessive current, because when it burns open, whatever else is on the short circuit path is probably equally fried.

 

On the other hand, a fuse is rated by current, and it has to blow immediately after power flowing through has exceeded its rated value. Visible fire may may appear when the fuse blows, leaving smoking residue on the PCB surface. I don't know what they did put on the board, but it looks like a fuse to me. Finding a proper replacement requires removing the broken part and measuring actual current consumed. Adding something around 30mA to the measured max value, then you have an a rating number to begin with.

[=McFly=]

Ok, problem solved! Thanks a lot to Mazzic for soldering my board back to a working condition again. It´s great to have such a helpful community here.:thumbup: