RIPTIDE Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Having flown Jane's F/A-18 the Super Hornet radar was stabilised not only to the horizon but as well it was stablised to what ever altiutude you had it slewed to even if you were climbing or descending (as long as it's within gimbal limits). So if you were slewed to 5000 feet above your current altitude, 25 miles out, it would stabilise to that altitude no matter what your nose attitude was. You could say it 'locked onto' the set altitude like it was in STT. But from what I'm reading hear, the Russian radar does not do this. Thanks to all who posted this makes for interesting reading. Its also the same with the F-15 radar in FC2.0, too. You can see the effect of this as the altitude drops on the scan zone on your scope, if you dive. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
fitness88 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Its also the same with the F-15 radar in FC2.0, too. You can see the effect of this as the altitude drops on the scan zone on your scope, if you dive. So the Russian planes must have their radar manually adjusted as the plane increases or decreases altitude in order to maintain a specific altitude radar scan, as previously mentioned in this thread. Edited February 2, 2011 by fitness88
104th_Crunch Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Additionally, the speed closure rate and height difference of launching platform has a great impact on calculations. Actually, speed of launching platform has no affect on the missile performance in FC2. For that we must wait for DCS:Fighter.
FLANKERATOR Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 TWS in the Russian fighters is a situational awareness mode, not a weapons employment mode. If you 'bug' a target in Russian TWS, it will go straight to STT if the target is inside 0.8 of max weapon range. That's why I never use this mode, you alert your opponent not on purpose and ruin your intercept. The only advantage maybe is the target designator slewing automaticelly on the most threatening bandit which in some cases might save your life, specially if you didn't notice it for whatsoever reason...lets say for example just after an ECM burn-through. Situational Awareness: https://sa-sim.com/ | The Air Combat Dojo: https://discord.gg/Rz77eFj
FLANKERATOR Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 Actually, speed of launching platform has no affect on the missile performance in FC2. For that we must wait for DCS:Fighter. Ohh...was aware of that in 1.12 but tought it had been implemented for FC2 :doh: Situational Awareness: https://sa-sim.com/ | The Air Combat Dojo: https://discord.gg/Rz77eFj
GGTharos Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 I think it's a great mode, just walk the TD away from the target and it won't lock it. Regarding missile speed, missile physics have remained the same as always. We will get new missile physics in DCS as it develops. Probably for sensors as well. That's why I never use this mode, you alert your opponent not on purpose and ruin your intercept. The only advantage maybe is the target designator slewing automaticelly on the most threatening bandit which in some cases might save your life, specially if you didn't notice it for whatsoever reason...lets say for example just after an ECM burn-through. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
fitness88 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 Again great info... Curious about something else. In FC1 flying the MIG or Su when you hit the sound barrier [hear the sonic boom when outside the plane] no matter what altitude, the mach meter always indicated exactly mach 1 as it should. Now in FC2 only when near ground level will the sonic boom happen exactly at mach 1. As you fly higher the sonic boom happens at mach 1.1, higher 1.2, higher 1.3 and so on. This shouldn't happen, the mach meter should adjust for altitude and the sonic boom should always occur at mach 1 regardless of altitude. I understand you will be flying at slower true air speed the higher your altitude to achieve mach 1. 1
GGTharos Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 It should, but it doesn't. Known issue - it is calibrated to Mach TAS at SL and does not correct for altitude. The sonic boom itself has the same problem AFAIK. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
104th_Crunch Posted February 2, 2011 Posted February 2, 2011 It sucks when someone points out a bug you never noticed. Now I will look at that Mach gauge all the freakin' time ;)
fitness88 Posted February 2, 2011 Author Posted February 2, 2011 It sucks when someone points out a bug you never noticed. Now I will look at that Mach gauge all the freakin' time ;) Crunch: don't bother looking it means nothing now. GGTharos thanks for the confirmation.
Frostie Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 That's why I never use this mode, you alert your opponent not on purpose and ruin your intercept. The only advantage maybe is the target designator slewing automaticelly on the most threatening bandit which in some cases might save your life, specially if you didn't notice it for whatsoever reason...lets say for example just after an ECM burn-through. I'd say the greatest benefit of Russian TWS is reading the aspect of contacts on the HDD. Like has been said, its a great situational awareness tool. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
fitness88 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) I'd say the greatest benefit of Russian TWS is reading the aspect of contacts on the HDD. Like has been said, its a great situational awareness tool. MIG-29s: When the cursor jumps onto the HUD tgt while in TWS and it gives weapon range ladder on the left side of the HUD, [this is when not within 80% weapon range], does the enemy get a lock up tone or only gets tone when within 80% weapon range? Also can someone tell me how I know the EOS altitude scan, all I see are notches on the left side of the HDD that go up or down without number indicators? Thank you. Edited February 3, 2011 by fitness88
Frostie Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 The notches on the HDD for IRST are related to the elevation angle, +60deg/-15deg. There is no altitude setting because you cannot designate a range. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
104th_Crunch Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 In MiG/Su TWS if at any time the cursor has jumped on the contact and you see the DLZ indicator, you have gone into STT and contact's RWR will sound. As GG mentioned, manually move target designator away from contact to prevent the autolock.
fitness88 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 The notches on the HDD for IRST are related to the elevation angle, +60deg/-15deg. There is no altitude setting because you cannot designate a range. Is there a certain amount of degree movement with each click of the key or does each notch represent a certain amount of degrees? Thank you
fitness88 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Posted February 3, 2011 In MiG/Su TWS if at any time the cursor has jumped on the contact and you see the DLZ indicator, you have gone into STT and contact's RWR will sound. As GG mentioned, manually move target designator away from contact to prevent the autolock. Yes I do keep the target designator away from the contact to prevent autolock. I just wasn't sure what went on in the tgt plane when I placed the tgt designator over the contact before the range necessary to auto lock. What I would see on my HUD is the weapon's range scale [rmax/rmin] to the left side of the HUD. Thank you
FLANKERATOR Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) As Frostie mentionned, you can not designate a range in EOS, only elevation, you will even notice that heat signals are moving vertically on the HUD as you are changing elevation unlike radar scanning where contacts just disappear as you are changing elevation. EOS uses continious infra-red image drawing while radar output is mainly based on refreshing, updating contacts data. The mindset of the pilot itself should adapt to the system being used. To simplify, I would say use EOS as your "eyes" and use radar as your "ears". Edited February 3, 2011 by FLANKERATOR Situational Awareness: https://sa-sim.com/ | The Air Combat Dojo: https://discord.gg/Rz77eFj
Sov13t Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 The TWS implementation of the SU-27 is far from the real deal, as are the sensors in general. FC2 representation should not be compared to realistic radar/eos functions that exist on the 27 and 29. And just as an example there is a separate toggle switch on the radar control panel that disables automatic target acquisition in TWS mode. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 51st PVO Regiment | Forum | Statistics DCS: MiG-21Bis
104th_Crunch Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 In MiG/Su TWS if at any time the cursor has jumped on the contact and you see the DLZ indicator, you have gone into STT and contact's RWR will sound. As GG mentioned, manually move target designator away from contact to prevent the autolock. Yes I do keep the target designator away from the contact to prevent autolock. I just wasn't sure what went on in the tgt plane when I placed the tgt designator over the contact before the range necessary to auto lock. What I would see on my HUD is the weapon's range scale [rmax/rmin] to the left side of the HUD. Thank you Sorry, I did not word this right. As soon as you bug the contact in TWS you get the DLZ indicator to the left, regardless of range. The contact will just get a search warning (nails) in their RWR when this happens. It is when you are within 80% of the weapons Rmax and you get the Cyrillic A to the left, as well as the target aspect line at the bottom, that the contact will get the lock warning (spike).
GGTharos Posted February 3, 2011 Posted February 3, 2011 It is the same implementation on all FC2 aircraft. The TWS implementation of the SU-27 is far from the real deal, as are the sensors in general. FC2 representation should not be compared to realistic radar/eos functions that exist on the 27 and 29. And just as an example there is a separate toggle switch on the radar control panel that disables automatic target acquisition in TWS mode. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
fitness88 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) As Frostie mentionned, you can not designate a range in EOS, only elevation, you will even notice that heat signals are moving vertically on the HUD as you are changing elevation unlike radar scanning where contacts just disappear as you are changing elevation. To simplify, I would say use EOS as your "eyes" and use radar as your "ears". I understand you can only designate elevation using EOS. What is the value in showing elevation movement using the notch marks on the left of the HDD if the notch marks don't indicate anything specific with relationship to the movement of the EOS. As an example, 1 notch could = 5 degrees line of sight. Referring to EOS I just found this bit of info from the manual P.38: The pitch elevation of the scan pattern is displayed at the HUD center-right. Also you mentioned about seeing the heat signals on the HUD. Are these the small [dotted] lines I see move up and down under the pitch ladder? Edited February 4, 2011 by fitness88
fitness88 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Sorry, I did not word this right. As soon as you bug the contact in TWS you get the DLZ indicator to the left, regardless of range. The contact will just get a search warning (nails) in their RWR when this happens. It is when you are within 80% of the weapons Rmax and you get the Cyrillic A to the left, as well as the target aspect line at the bottom, that the contact will get the lock warning (spike). Would this be the same warning they would get from sensing active search radar in scan mode as well?
104th_Crunch Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Would this be the same warning they would get from sensing active search radar in scan mode as well? Yes, there are only 2 types of warnings for the RWRs in FC2. A search warning, and a lock warning.
Kuky Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Yes, there are only 2 types of warnings for the RWRs in FC2. A search warning, and a lock warning. Actually that search warning is exactly the same as lock warning... it only sends audible tone when RWR is exposed to radar energy... difference is single short tone when radar just scans accross in its pattern and lock is continuous tone because radar is no longer scnaning but has constant energy beam towards you. PC specs: Windows 11 Home | Asus TUF Gaming B850-Plus WiFi | AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D + LC 360 AIO | MSI RTX 5090 LC 360 AIO | 55" Samsung Odyssey Gen 2 | 64GB PC5-48000 DDR5 | 1TB M2 SSD for OS | 2TB M2 SSD for DCS | NZXT C1000 Gold ATX 3.1 1000W | TM Cougar Throttle, Floor Mounted MongoosT-50 Grip on TM Cougar board, MFG Crosswind, Track IR
fitness88 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Actually that search warning is exactly the same as lock warning... it only sends audible tone when RWR is exposed to radar energy... difference is single short tone when radar just scans accross in its pattern and lock is continuous tone because radar is no longer scnaning but has constant energy beam towards you. Thanks for the update. I'm assuming this applies to both US and Russian planes?
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