Mk-82 Dive Angle, Airspeed Recommendation

[polygonpusher]

Greetings all,

 

I'm very interested in learning the "by the book" parameters used for mk-82 / mk-84 CCIP bombing in the A-10. I realize that the CCIP pipper does most of the work for us - however I feel like I never have an optimal altitude and dive angle combination.

 

I had found this table posted by Any Bush in his excellent article over at SimHQ.

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_101p.html

 

The top line of the chart reads to me as fifteen degrees, and a release altitude of 1.3 (I'm assuming 1,300 ft?) for a low drag mk-82.

 

Am I reading this right? 1,300 ft seems awfully low.

 

Any clarification, information, or insight on proper release parameters would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you so much,

 

And Thank You DCS team for all of your dedicated hard work.

 

It's a beauty this one

[SmokeyTheLung]

It's not much, but you can pick up a few things from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke2ZEIiSmHU

 

we might have to join the air force to get much further...

[polygonpusher]

Thanks Smokey!

 

That's an awesome video.

 

Unfortunately due to a pre-exiting medical condition I was not able to enlist - made it as far as the bus to MEPS.

 

Thanks again,

 

Normally I release at 6,000 ft and 15 degrees of dive - airspeed varies

 

What release parameters work for you?

[Cibit]

In the A10 in Iraq book mention is made of 60 degrees of dive. Also because of triple A threat they stayed above 16000 ft IIRC and where not allowed to descend below 10,000. Use these parameters as a guide and see how you get on:thumbup:

 

Oh and let us know how you do.

Now we have CBU's I find mk82's increasingly less desirable in my payload;)

[Sinky]

Started using the CBU's recently and they make me nearly have a crisis ( you won't understand if you don't watch top gear ).

 

I usually go with the flow when releasing dumb bombs but I tend to average around 15 degrees and releasing at around 2000.

[Heli Shed]

go watch my videos, they'll help.

 

Regards

 

'T'

[mic1184]

employing the standard mk82s requires some practise. Given you have no significant wind speed differences between high (8-10k ft) and ground it works well for me to start from 8-10k ft with a angle of 45 or more degrees with engines idle and speedbrakes closed. depending on how well your aquisition was you can get them away (i always used pairs) and break before going through 4k. the steeper your dive angle the better in CCIP (without CR which i prefer).

 

It depends very much on your target and threats. If there's AAA you'll want to break away as high as possible of course.

 

Dive angles of 15° never worked for me, but I'm not an experienced pilot either. still i would say no. I used to pull throttles to idle and fully open speedbrakes with 45+ degree dive angles cuz i was afraid i wouldn't have enough time afterwards. don't do it. you're gonna need the speed coming off. If you don't have enough time in your dive you have to start higher.

Edited February 28, 2011 by mic1184

[Sinky]

Dive angles of 15° never worked for me, but I'm not an experienced pilot either. still i would say no. I used to pull throttles to idle and fully open speedbrakes with 45+ degree dive angles cuz i was afraid i wouldn't have enough time afterwards. don't do it. you're gonna need the speed coming off. If you don't have enough time in your dive you have to start higher.

 

Yeah the problem that I encounter sometimes using 15 degrees is the speed at which the target moves down the PIBL, you have to have good reactions to hit release at the right time and you can still mess it up.

 

I think I might try out your technique.

[Succellus]

You can always climb 10.000 invert like a stucka and release, problem is, we dont have glass as floor. Ha and dont forget to extend brakes.

 

I usually goes a steep dive above 10000 and release when i feel it on CCIP, absolutely not by the book.

Remember not all is by the book each pilot has its habbits whenever rules permit.

Start by the book then find your own way.

[polygonpusher]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

I'll have to try to stay out of my own frag pattern.

 

Cheers. :)

[hassata]

It's not much, but you can pick up a few things from this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke2ZEIiSmHU

 

Watching that clip, is there any doubt as to what an incredible home-based sim experience we have? I'll embed, if I may:

 

ke2ZEIiSmHU

[OutOnTheOP]

My methodology is based on the tactics used in a high-threat environment, IE Cold War battlefields... I know I've seen actual military SOP referring to this attack profile, but I'm too lazy to look up the reference at the moment.

 

Anyhow! Start low and fast (or what passes for fast in an A-10), with your target off-center about 30 degrees left or right (I find the canopy bow makes a pretty good reference point). At 2.5-3 miles from the target, initiate a straight-up pull to 30 degrees nose up and hold this until your airspeed has bled to 200 knots; you should be somewhere around 4-5000 feet. Roll over about 120 degrees of bank and turn onto your target, simultaneously bringing your nose down past the horizon and into a 30 degree dive on to the target. Release at 2000-3000 AGL. No, you won't get much time to line up your target, so it takes some practice to get a feel for it. You literally have to get to where your target is almost perfectly on the PBIL right as you roll wings level, without needing fine-tuning. Personally, I PREFER using -82airs with this attack profile, modified by delaying my pull-up until 2 miles from the target, which gives me accordingly less altitude (but with the -82airs, I don't need it), and correspondingly decreased exposure window to SAM/ AAA fire.

 

Now, as I said, I have seen reference somewhere to the A-10 using this attack profile, and I can tell you I've personally DIRECTED F-16s using it (live bombs, but on a training range; I was practicing JTAC procedure as a fire suppport officer). They could get more altitude with their speed, but they still don't try it- it exposes them too much to SAM/ AAA fire.

[mic1184]

a mistake that is sometimes made in the forums is transfering any real life tactics to the game without considering the threat environment.

 

yes terrain masking has been a cold war strategy for the hog in a european theater facing the warsaw pact. where the biggest thread was comprehensive radar coverage from a perfectly equipped enemy.

 

then history got the hogs into iraq, where radar threats were put out of action within the first day and remainders were well known. the enemy was the desert floor, AAA and some IR SAMs. they had to revise their whole practised low alt high threat stuff and went for the high altitudes (basicly).

 

then in OAF it was a mix of both strategies, but the high altitude high threat still seemed to be favorable in an asymmetric conflict that it was.

 

afghanistan. anyone heard of taliban telephone poles (or other long range radar threat?) i didn't. main threat is small arms fire. in theory some MANPADs (not really as much as i know).

 

there is nothing like a generic rule in the game for which tactica you should use. the scenario has mountains and plains. terrain masking is possible, as is getting shot from small arms at 500 ft in a no radar environment. every tried to react to a shoulder launched IR SAM flying slow at 500 ft?

 

you have to keep your threats in mind, thats a (virtual) living or dying. if i said do a dive from 10k ft to 5k ft, do it when there are no high alt SAMs (there shoulodnt in any case btw). if ur playing a classic US vs russia conflict in mind, stick with the 1000ft 15° bombing.

 

the wish for realism makes us impose rules (in brain ROE) in our minds that a virtual wing commander doesn't ingame. make those rules with a reason in mind.

 

its the way to an immersive game for me