-Ice Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I'm playing the Easy instant action mission where you have to destroy a couple of vehicles, a bridge, and some tanks. Vehicles are fine, a couple of glancing hits and they explode with nice secondaries. The last waypoint on this mission is a convoy of tanks and by the time I get to them, I am usually low on weapons and have to take out one or two with guns. Sure, I can sic my wingie at them, but what's the fun in that? Anyway, I was wondering how to safely engage tanks. Sure, I know high and from behind is ideal, but from how high? Also, I say "safely" because these damn critters shoot back! A guns pass on 3 MBTs is suicide! From my limited experience, by the time HE gets in decent kill range (6- to 3-o'clock on the Guns pipper), YOU are in range of his machine gun as well! - Ice
robmlufc Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Come in from behind them at a nice angle, I think the damage model is basically hit points rather than a dynamic thing so unfortunately you cant get lucky and hit some ammo in the tank :( I think in RL against convoys A10's would use the wingman and make a couple of runs each from different angles so not to attract all the return fire. I'm pretty sure short bursts from 2 miles will keep you fairly safe.
-Ice Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Behind, yes, but what angle? Come in from high and do about a 30 degree-dive? Or low and about 10-15-degrees? Also, "short bursts" isn't enough to kill a tank, IME it takes about 1-1.5 second PAC-stabilized burst to kill it. However, my concern is how to kill a tank without getting your butt whooped in the process. - Ice
StrongHarm Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Here's text book. I'm pretty sure Wags learned this from real Hawg drivers on the real sims. See more of his vids HERE It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
Para_Bellum Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) The way I do it (no AAA threats): fly at 10.000ft towards targets from behind (watch TGP), cut throttle, deploy airbrakes, dive onto targets at 30-45°, pull up at 3.000-4.000ft and break. I never get hit by tanks or those pesky BMPs that way and can consistently score kills. Edited February 28, 2011 by Para_Bellum 1
Namenlos Ein Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_053a.html — A-10 Pilots’ Coloring Book. 1
Sinky Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 What StrongHarm said. I use Wags method of firing at 0.5 until 0.2 slant and I get a kill nearly every time. Only use around 100 rounds average. Para: To my knowledge the PAC won't engage with the speed brakes deployed will it? 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ASUS M4A785D-M Pro | XFX 650W XXX | AMD Phenom II X4 B55 Black Edition 3.2ghz | 4GB Corsair XMS2 DHX 800mhz | XFX HD 5770 1GB @ 850/1200 | Windows 7 64bit | Logitech G35 | Logitech Mx518 | TrackIR 4 My TrackIR Profile ( Speed 1.2 / Smooth 30 ) - Right click & save as.
Para_Bellum Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Sinky: That is correct, I retract the airbrakes before opening fire with the gun. re: the video: I would strongly recommend NOT to overfly a platoon of tanks, you WILL get hit.
MackTheKnight Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Thanks for posting that vid - I think I'm missing something on my gun runs. When Wags fired the GAU8 there, I noticed that the nose of his plane didn't come up at all. When I fire mine the nose pitches up wildly. I use a HOTAS Warthog and I see PAC engage at the first stage of the trigger, but the nose still pitches wildly. Have I forgotten to turn something on? Thanks, Mack Edit - Sinky & Para answered my question - I was using the air-brakes. lol, thanks. +1 to you both. Edited February 28, 2011 by MackTheKnight
Sinky Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Sinky: That is correct, I retract the airbrakes before opening fire with the gun. re: the video: I would strongly recommend NOT to overfly a platoon of tanks, you WILL get hit. Yeah it's possible to use wags method and not overfly the target, I do it a lot. You will be engaged though. Edit - Sinky & Para answered my question - I was using the air-brakes. lol, thanks. +1 to you both. Thank you, happy flying. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ASUS M4A785D-M Pro | XFX 650W XXX | AMD Phenom II X4 B55 Black Edition 3.2ghz | 4GB Corsair XMS2 DHX 800mhz | XFX HD 5770 1GB @ 850/1200 | Windows 7 64bit | Logitech G35 | Logitech Mx518 | TrackIR 4 My TrackIR Profile ( Speed 1.2 / Smooth 30 ) - Right click & save as.
-Ice Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Wags' video is all fine and good. Now try it against an active tank and you'll see that by the time you engage him, he'll most likely be sending a couple of rounds your way as well. I'm looking for a more stand-off-ish way of employing the gun. The 10K attack with steep dive is nice and I've tried dives from 5-7K alt, but by the time you pull out, you're begging for some AAA fire as well. - Ice
StrongHarm Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) You can clearly see the tank firing at him, but he has some slip and speed. Wags' video is all fine and good. Now try it against an active tank and you'll see that by the time you engage him, he'll most likely be sending a couple of rounds your way as well. Edited February 28, 2011 by StrongHarm It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
Sinky Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Against active tanks they only get a shot or two off at me, once my rounds land he is incapable of firing. Extending the range seems to involve using a ridiculous amount of ammunition in my experience ( against MBT's ). If your worried about the AAA then hit them first even if you just have the cannon at your disposal. The GAU-8 has a slight range advantage over the Shilka for a reason, sorry but I can't remember the exact slant range to engage and break off at safely. Edited February 28, 2011 by Sinky [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ASUS M4A785D-M Pro | XFX 650W XXX | AMD Phenom II X4 B55 Black Edition 3.2ghz | 4GB Corsair XMS2 DHX 800mhz | XFX HD 5770 1GB @ 850/1200 | Windows 7 64bit | Logitech G35 | Logitech Mx518 | TrackIR 4 My TrackIR Profile ( Speed 1.2 / Smooth 30 ) - Right click & save as.
-Ice Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Erm, I didn't mean AAA as in dedicated AAA --- they would get a Mav up their behind before I go near. I mean the tank guns going for you. Sorry for the confusion. So there is no way to engage the tanks that is guaranteed they do not shoot at you? - Ice
Sinky Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Erm, I didn't mean AAA as in dedicated AAA --- they would get a Mav up their behind before I go near. I mean the tank guns going for you. Sorry for the confusion. So there is no way to engage the tanks that is guaranteed they do not shoot at you? Give them a burst in their weak spot at around 0.8 and get the hell out of dodge? Haven't tried it but I know they tend to engage me at around 0.45. If I'm up against multiple tanks in close proximity I take time to plan my attack angle. All the planning in the world can't make up for having an unlucky day though. Would be nice to see what Wags technique would be. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] ASUS M4A785D-M Pro | XFX 650W XXX | AMD Phenom II X4 B55 Black Edition 3.2ghz | 4GB Corsair XMS2 DHX 800mhz | XFX HD 5770 1GB @ 850/1200 | Windows 7 64bit | Logitech G35 | Logitech Mx518 | TrackIR 4 My TrackIR Profile ( Speed 1.2 / Smooth 30 ) - Right click & save as.
Eggcake Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I also have some problems with tanks - maybe I'm just too far away, never get this close. Will definitely try it. From >1.0 it's pretty much impossible to kill a tank without using half of your rounds imho...
159th_Viper Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 From >1.0 it's pretty much impossible to kill a tank without using half of your rounds imho... 100 Rounds sufficient for a kill on all MBT's. So there is no way to engage the tanks that is guaranteed they do not shoot at you? Successful engagement with the GAU-8 will almost always draw fire from your target (As per example track of 5 x T-72's). Whether you get hit by the incoming fire is all up to you: Herewith enclosed find track of an engagement with 5 x T-72's. MBT prosecuted is broadside to me with 4 others in close proximity. Pop-up and acquire, engage PAC-1 at approx 1.5nm - 1nm from target and fire at 0.7nm - 0.5nm. 100 Rounds, break hard and extend. Should be fine with tank cooked. Get closer and you're gonna get the paintwork scratched by his irate friends. Disclaimer: By no means an authoritative means of going about it - merely one way to skin the proverbial cat :) [ATTACH]48263[/ATTACH] 1 Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
636_Castle Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) The key is to ration your weapons (save all of your mavs at the very least, not including guns). Then ID your biggest threats. The column will usually have the meanest guys at the back of the line, and they're lead by the weakest links. Remember to never over-fly a deadly target. You're not very safe when the Hog's rear is wavin' a target around on it's tail. Try your best to see as far forward as you can, this will require a steady head if using TrackIR. Attack him from all angles, remember you have the better vantage point, so use it. Stay nice and fast. This makes the bad guys have to lead their shots on you to compensate for bullet lag, and they're usually off. If you're having a hard time keeping SA, try making the target your SPI so you get a tail on your HUD. If something doesn't feel right about a strafe (altitude, speed, position, distraction), bug out of the situation and come back around. Remember, Hog pilots are trained to have the ability to reattack a target within 30 seconds when necessary, so don't let the bad guys reorganize, or even worse, start moving again and have to reacquire. Oh, and don't miss! They didn't spend forever making that gun accurate just so you could waste ammo. :P Edited February 28, 2011 by 636_Castle [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] How To Fix Your X-52's Rudder!
Lonecrow66 Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Wish you could turn off labels at will.. Whenever I go to strafe they just get in the way. --- May your takeoffs equal your landings!
Succellus Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 That why i play label off, but its muchuchuch harder ... and nasty surprises are more comon and nasty. HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD. Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.
159th_Viper Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Wish you could turn off labels at will... You can ;) LShift + F10 Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
Eggcake Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I usually play with labels on, because it's really hard to spot targets without JTAC. For gun runs, I target vehicles with TGP and disable labels (I even have a shortcut on my joystick for that). Mostly using the CCIP reticle so it doesn't hide the target.
StrongHarm Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 159th_Viper actually posted some tracks in another thread that got me moving in the right direction on heavy armor gun runs. His methods work. And like 636_Castle said, you shouldn't be afraid of them, they should be afraid of you. As long as you don't overfly your target or stay on one egress trajectory, they should have a very difficult time hitting you. Give your egress both climb and turn on climb out. Don't try to take a bad shot, come around again if it doesn't look pretty. I set up a mission with 4 stationary active T-80s, and 4 moving T-80s orbiting them. After some practice I'm now able to take a huge tank column out with finesse and not a scratch. It's a good thing that this is Early Access and we've all volunteered to help test and enhance this work in progress... despite the frustrations inherent in the task with even the simplest of software... otherwise people might not understand that this incredibly complex unfinished module is unfinished. /light-hearted sarcasm
Ginsu80 Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I modified my labels.lua file to cut down on the range that I can see ground targets, and both blue and red forces are colored black. I figure it's the general range a pilot could see a vehicle is a vehicle, but you have to be damn near on top of it to identify it. I think it strikes the right balance of situational awareness and compensates for the limitations of the sim. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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