I forgot

[leroy1964]

Hi guys and fellow pilots of DCS Black Shark. I only started playing again recently after having sometime away, anyway... the reason for the post is "why is the chopper suddenly losing alt" and dropping like a rock" although I was flying straight and level, not stressing the engines/rotors etc. One minute at 4000ft everything fine next minutes start losing alt and for whatever reason cannot recover. I forgot that I had stopped playing DCS last time because of this. Seems no reason for it.

 

Cheers

 

Le'Roy:pilotfly:

[luza]

Lack of fuel or icing.

 

Edit: or rotor colition

Provid a track for us to be sure

[RogueRunner]

You do not say what speed you are doing but it could also be VRS.

[sobek]

As stated above, impossible to diagnose with so little details. Please provide a track or more information on you flight parameters and warnings, engine flameouts, etc.

[BaD CrC]

Could be VRS indeed (Vortex Ring State) if you are flying real slow or hovering with a high negative vertical speed.

[DTWD]

I don't think I have ever managed to get into VRS at 4000 ft.

[Henchman14]

I've had this happen too, and its not vortex ring. No warning lights, no nothing. No perceptible damage in cockpit or from satellite view. Going forward but losing speed and dropping. Engines sound totally normal, but can't gain altitude. Eventually, you slowly drop to the ground. I managed to land, but couldn't go up again, even though everything is showing normal. Could be a bug. Only thing I can think of is massive air pressure drop.

[EtherealN]

Please save the track next time you encounter this for analysis.

[sobek]

I've had this happen too, and its not vortex ring. No warning lights, no nothing. No perceptible damage in cockpit or from satellite view. Going forward but losing speed and dropping. Engines sound totally normal, but can't gain altitude. Eventually, you slowly drop to the ground. I managed to land, but couldn't go up again, even though everything is showing normal. Could be a bug. Only thing I can think of is massive air pressure drop.

 

It's either VRS or exceeding the maximum hover altitude for that loadout. You are aware that transitional lift allows you to fly up to heights where hovering is no longer possible? Ideal speed is 130km/h for climbing to max altitude. If you start diverting (faster OR slower) you will lose lift and no longer be able to maintain altitude.

[Henchman14]

No, this was low to the ground ( about 200 feet) at speed. Something just happened. Even after I managed to land, and it was a decent landing, I couldn't get lift to go back up. Engines were at full speed, rotors were blazing, nothing looked wrong. Some kind of bug. When you hit VRS, you know it. You drop like a rock. I tried to pull the .track later, but it had already been overwritten. Next time, I'll be sure to pull the track.

[luza]

I love how you assume it's a bug and blame the game.

[159th_Viper]

Ensure/Toggle Rotor, Engine de-icing switches and Pitot heat on.

[leroy1964]

Your answers are all excellent

 

Guys, well it seems I opened a can of worms with this thread. All your answers are great however I am not a die hard player like most of you (I don't even know whata track is or how to save/retreive one).

 

Anyhow more info for you. I am playing on "Game setting" as I have joystick issues where the collective doen't setup properly yet works in game setting. Go figure (however that is another issue all together).:joystick:

 

Mission "altitude" I guess you know it, (Ist solo mission of the choice) where you have to climb to 4000 ft and escort some choopers to a base (elevation 5000 ft, or something like that) "Anyhow" take off, following route, ask wingman to move to combat spread/cruise. Everything going fine, flying along, climbing nicely not over stressing engines, collective, rotors etc.

 

Reach 4000 ft (as per mission briefing am now at 3rd waypoint just before you met the choopers you have to escort. Ice defrost turned on as mission recommends and at this point nothing wrong. Next thing I get a tone, lights flashing, I check nothing showing as wrong (I know that sounds strange) but please believe me I am looking for a display so I can correct the issue?

 

Almost immeditaly I start dropping like a rock, engines fine, everything is quiet as I have turned off tone and flashing red light and yellow light, rotor still spinning how seems slower (or it could be me) if I had to pin point anything it is like I am getting no lift from the collective. Having said that the collective responds but the flying brick is just that, it is a downward spiral until the crash and my death. :cry:

 

So in summary, for me this has happend before on same mission and always the same point, 2nd waypoint just near town before you get the the choppers and troops at base. No small arms fire, no AA.

 

Again I must state, I have flown the black shark real smooth, not a step climb, no over rev on motor or rotors and prior to turning into a rock, nothing. As I said worse thing you are left thinking "how do I fix this"? basically you can't.

 

Sorry for the non tech imfo, seems Henchmen (is it) has experinced somethig similar. I have to go with the guy who mentioned "fuel maybe" is it possible the fuel gets blocked or slows down to the cold, I mean after all one does turn on the de-ice thingy for the rotors? However I would have thought on "Game setting" you haven't to worry about such detail. I really think it might be a issue with that mission.

 

If you have noticed something in my ramblings (apart from the spelling mistakes and that I play on "Game" settings) please inform me. I guess I could just move onto the next mission and or play campain?:pilotfly:

[159th_Viper]

....I guess I could just move onto the next mission and or play campain?:pilotfly:

 

Do us a favour and re-fly the mission :)

 

At altitude, ensure all three systems are online (1: Engine anti-ice + 2: Rotor Anti-Ice + 3: Pitot heat sensors). If you have the failure again, hit the Esc key and Quit the mission.

 

Once you get to the debrief screen you will me prompted to 'Save Track'. Do so, follow the prompts and upload the saved track for us to have a look at. Uploading track via the 'paperclip' icon just above the reply window.

[Henchman14]

 

Almost immeditaly I start dropping like a rock, engines fine, everything is quiet as I have turned off tone and flashing red light and yellow light, rotor still spinning how seems slower (or it could be me) if I had to pin point anything it is like I am getting no lift from the collective. Having said that the collective responds but the flying brick is just that, it is a downward spiral until the crash and my death. :cry:

 

"Dropping like a rock, rotor slowing", that sounds like VRS. Collective won't help you, ya know. "Rotor slowing" is probably where you tried to increase your collective, which caused the zebra light to flash. Tone is probably vertical velocity decreasing too fast. Your surrounded by your spent waste air. You have to "slide out" of the spent air. Banking into a hard sideways drift usually works best for me. It'll take you out of the downward racing air and into fresh, stable air, which will give you lift. Besides at 4000 feet your in pretty thin air to begin with. Little lift.

[leroy1964]

Will do

 

Thanks, I will re-fly mission and do as you and others have recommended, see how I go.

 

Cheers, will keep you posted.

 

 

Do us a favour and re-fly the mission :)

 

At altitude, ensure all three systems are online (1: Engine anti-ice + 2: Rotor Anti-Ice + 3: Pitot heat sensors). If you have the failure again, hit the Esc key and Quit the mission.

 

Once you get to the debrief screen you will me prompted to 'Save Track'. Do so, follow the prompts and upload the saved track for us to have a look at. Uploading track via the 'paperclip' icon just above the reply window.

[leroy1964]

Many thanks

 

Well I am impressed with the many answers I have been getting. You sound like your right into this sim and maybe helo's, thanks for the advice, it has been informative and I will be keeping in mind what you and others have been saying. However I can't help wonder, if the helo has problems at alts like this, why I are they not falling out fo the sky in real life, ie thin air?

 

I did try the "sliding out bit" as you suggested, just sent the nose downward and the spinning got worse. On a funnier note, I was thinking WTF??? I did let go of the stick and it seemed to settle only to continue spiraling down. Really seems once this happens your kinda "farked":joystick:

 

I have been in choppers when I was in the Aussie Army (Hueys) never at 4000 ft but skimming the canopy of the jungle, now that was fun. They never fell out of the sky and they seemed quite high at times, however this was the heat and humidty of North Queensland and I was no pilot. Might look into this "thin air thingy, seems important if I keep felling out of the sky" again thanks :thumbup:

 

"Dropping like a rock, rotor slowing", that sounds like VRS. Collective won't help you, ya know. "Rotor slowing" is probably where you tried to increase your collective, which caused the zebra light to flash. Tone is probably vertical velocity decreasing too fast. Your surrounded by your spent waste air. You have to "slide out" of the spent air. Banking into a hard sideways drift usually works best for me. It'll take you out of the downward racing air and into fresh, stable air, which will give you lift. Besides at 4000 feet your in pretty thin air to begin with. Little lift.

[Henchman14]

Your welcome. Its a heavy heli, at it takes a LOT of practice. Just give it some collective without pushing it too much ( you don't want your zebra light to flash ). If your zebra is flashing, decrease your collective to the point it stops flashing. Then just give it left or right bank and hold the craft steady. You don't want to let the cyclic go, it will go all over the place and may tear your rotors off. Eventually, it should grab enough air to be able to pull itself out of the tunnel of spent air. You can also just go forward, but I've found that left or right bank seems to be faster in recovery. And when your in VRS and near the ground, that can be critical.

[DTWD]

I agree with Henchman's diagnosis of the bells and whistles so that sort of leaves us with why it's happening.

 

One thing I would like you to check please. When you hit this problem, look down, backwards and left, you will see 2 black handles, these are your throttles. They should be set to auto (the middle), make sure they are.

 

I just had a thought you (or a command on your joystick?) are either pushing the throttles into full power (and damaging something not showing on a panel) or they are below auto, and thus don't do anything. I don't know why it would wait until the same point, unless at that point your doing something else and catching the page up/down keys?

[leroy1964]

Seems pilot error

 

I did the mission again and this time I turned on everything to do with de-icing that I could think of prior to reaching the 3rd waypoint (just before the base and troop deployment). Anyhow none of the previous problems I have had seems the cold really does a job on the engine/rotors and everything else. However, I did decided to start "throwing the Shark around a bit" and caused all sorts of problems and ended up dropping like a rock again and dying.:cry: So it would seem from this re-run, even though I survived to the waypoint where all the issues start, that didn't happen. However I believe prior to giving the shark a rough ride and carshing and dying, that the issue was around "icing of the engine/rotors etc". Seems you can't throw this baby around with steep turns and extreme diving and climbing. I saved the track as you all suggested, for thos keen on viewing it, how do I attach it to a post. And lastly many thanks to all who contributed, you are all excellent :thumbup:

[Henchman14]

Yeah, hard diving can rip up your rotors if you give it a lot of collective during the dive. I drop my collective in a hard dive, which flattens the rotors and keeps them safe.