Japans earth quake 20110311

[bumfire]

Its a fukin shame, it really is, Japan is a Great Country, out of all the place in the world for it to happen, it picks Japan, what about all the other shitholes of the world that would be better off being destroyed and rebuilt from scratch...

[bumfire]

On TV in Japan now, No Tsunami detected ????

 

whats going on ? on bbc you could see a wave incoming and them saying Tsunami incoming, nobody knows what is going on over there, crazy situation.

[jpm1]

Its a fukin shame, it really is, Japan is a Great Country, out of all the place in the world for it to happen, it picks Japan, what about all the other shitholes of the world that would be better off being destroyed and rebuilt from scratch...

 

i agree with you , japanese doesn't deserve that . they are living a nightmare awake

[jpm1]

if what they say that the sea level has gone off , tsunami will arrive

[EtherealN]

Watching NHK right now, they're saying containment and reactor is intact on #3. Likely same story as with #1.

[bumfire]

Bloody hell, that was some powerful explosion, much more powerful than the first.

 

I tell ya, if the reactors remained secure, you will have to hand it to the people who built these things, as it was a huge explosion that ripped the 3rd building apart and if they remain intact it is a testament to the over engineering that went into these things.

 

I wonder if Japan will now choose to get rid of all their nuke plants in the longterm.

[EtherealN]

I wonder if Japan will now choose to get rid of all their nuke plants in the longterm.

 

I sort of doubt it. What I expect to happen is that expansion plans get stopped (they were planning to expand from something like 34% nuclear to 50% nuclear in the grid), but since they don't have much in the way of alternatives I'm unsure what they could replace them with. They don't have much in the way of free land to use for the massive solar/wind farms that would be needed to replace them, I'm unsure if wave farms are a mature enough technology to help them, and they have no coal/oil/gas deposits to replace them with fossil.

 

What I hope will happen is that this will remind the powers that be that they shouldn't be cheap on funding fusion research. If any country can finally crack that one it is the Japanese, and this just might give them the final motivation to go all in with it.

Edited March 14, 2011 by EtherealN

[bumfire]

Yea, it would be hard to give them up, but I wouldnt put it past public opinion to go against them especially knowing how anti nuke the Japanese are, anti nuke in regards to weapons I mean.

 

Also I wouldnt put it past them to pour money into financing a greener solution, as if anyone can come up with a solution to the worlds energy crisis its Japan.

 

I agree with the fusion problem, the Japanese are smart and it maybe takes something like this for a completely new technology to be born.

 

To be honest with ya, I think the area around that nuke plant is toally irradiated, because ontop and outside of the concrete containment building, their is a pool of water with spent plutonium and uranium fuel ( like you see with other nuke plants, a large swimming pool type thing ), no way that survived the explosion since it wasnt inside the containment dome.

 

That had to of been destroyed along with all the spent fuel.

[EtherealN]

Define "totally irradiated". They have staff working there, and on NHK I heard 20 mSv quoted. Not a party, but still "only" 5 years background where I live.

[bumfire]

When I say irradiated, I mean irradiated enough for it to not become habitable for years and fishing and eating seafood caught in the area to be banned, no way will that area be populated for a loooong time.

 

I believe that the Japanese are not telling us the full story when it comes to the radiation, because the entire infrastructure is wasted in that area and if they start telling people that the radiation is massive, they are going to scare the population further and make the situation a hundred times worse by forcing the population to flee by themselves instead of an orderly evacuation.

 

Remember chernobyl was totally irradiated, but it was still actively generating power til 2000 or thereabouts and still has people inside it working.

 

The people who work in them plants, they will know that they cannot just leave, some will probably already be aware that what they are doing by trying to fix the situation will be the end of them, if they are lucky they will of suited up before it happened.

 

For 7 months I worked at Dounreay dismantling the thing, it scared me enough to change jobs and never want to do something similar again.

 

I seriously fear that we will only know the real story about how much radiation was released weeks from now.

[EtherealN]

Remember chernobyl was totally irradiated, but it was still actively generating power til 2000 or thereabouts and still has people inside it working.

 

Chernobyl was a reactor meltdown with an exposed core. Completely different thing.

 

The radiation at the site varies between 1 and 50 microSievert (they updated it just now on NHK) per hour. This means that at the worst areas you need 20 hours to get exposed to the equivalent of a chest X-ray.

 

Still no information on which materials they have observed though, so saying anything about long-term effects is not possible right now.

 

I believe that the Japanese are not telling us the full story when it comes to the radiation, because the entire infrastructure is wasted in that area and if they start telling people that the radiation is massive, they are going to scare the population further and make the situation a hundred times worse by forcing the population to flee by themselves instead of an orderly evacuation.

 

The people is pretty much already evacuated. There is a total of 600 people still in the 20km radius evacuation zone, according to NHK.

Edited March 14, 2011 by EtherealN
corrected typo

[Apples]

I wouldn't rely on any news broadcast involving any types of #'s.

[EtherealN]

I wouldn't rely on any news broadcast involving any types of #'s.

 

The numbers came live from emergency service press conferences.

[bumfire]

True, chernobyl was totally different, but its my opinion, however right or wrong that it is, that what is actually being said is totally different to what is actually happening in regards to the radiation situation.

 

Also US helicopters are picking up radiation 60km away.

 

I really suspect that the situation for radiation is far worse than what is being plastered all over the media, and if I was a betting man I would put money on the fact that the immediate area will now become uninhabitable and all seafood from within 10-20km banned from human consumption.

 

Look at it from this point of view, where I worked, they would find single particles every now and then on the beach and it would shit them out and seafood from the area was totally banned, that was just a few SINGLE particles found on the beach next to the plant every now and then.

 

Think of it like this also, say in your country, if what has just happened in japan, just the nuke part, if that that happened where you are, do you think your government would allow you to go back near it ??? nope, I think not.

 

Going back to that beach with the "odd" single particles found now and then, they closed the entire beach to civilians, but whether that was due to the particles or the fact that they had been dumping waste directly into the sea on the sly is debatable, but they closed it and thats exactly whats going to happen in the immediate area next to that plant, whether for a year or a few years or long term, it is now a no go area for people.

[EtherealN]

Respectfully, there's no point discussing the issue if you'll just assume that any and all information being released is false. I don't entertain conspiracy theories.

 

Remember: you can set off radiation alarms through bringing a banana. Don't assume that just because people take precautions things are apocalyptic.

[bumfire]

Whoa, calm down, nobody is saying anything about it being apocalyptic or saying everything is a conspiracy or disbeliving everything. I dont subscribe to conspiracy theory websites.

 

Nobody is assuming anything, well maybe you if you are assuming its actually safe.

 

I am neither believing its safe or not safe because I dont know, we have been told that the reactors are intact and if they are, then things wont be hugely problematic, but their is more to a nuclear power plant than the reactors, hazardous material is everywhere.

 

I have an opinion, which I believe is that it is not safe whether thats short term aka days, or long term, regardless of what the Japanese who are notoriously stingy when it comes to releasing "Real" information regarding their nuclear industry say.

 

In the Uk nuclear industry which I had a very brief spell working in, I can assure you that what we see in Japan would end up in a total exlcusion zone for miles and unlikely for those zones to be lifted for a loong time, but I suppose thats another banana conspiracy theory.

 

It's common sense that it isnt safe, 10 particles makes it "UNSAFE", apocalyptic no, related to 911, no, george bush did it, no, saddam hussein did it from beyond the grave, no, its just unsafe and WILL end up being cordoned off for a long time, you really dont have to be a scientist to understand that.

Edited March 14, 2011 by bumfire

[jpm1]

... but since they don't have much in the way of alternatives I'm unsure what they could replace them with. They don't have much in the way of free land to use for the massive solar/wind farms that would be needed to replace them ...

 

Thanks God , wind farms and solar aren't the only solutions . green technologies are numerous and very promising but they have to face powerful lobbies not only nuclear but oil one too . numerous technologies based on sea are available and sea isn't something faulty in Japan

 

... To be honest with ya, I think the area around that nuke plant is toally irradiated...

 

i do believe so . and here's something that tend to confirm that fact

BBC

According to an article in the New York Times, the US aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from Japan's stricken reactors on Sunday. Crew members received a month's worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials were quoted as saying.

 

a little ship would have crossed accidentally the road of a little contaminated cloud . pretty disturbing

[Apples]

CNN showed a video of the so called riots in the latest Wisconsin protests that had palm trees in the back round. CNN/BBC/FOX etc LOL

[MoGas]

 

Edited March 14, 2011 by MoGas

[Speed]

This is unbelievable...

2uJN3Z1ryck

 

:cry:

[hassata]

pIZKlaEZMLY

 

Differences as with Chernobyl:

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2011/0313/Japan-s-nuclear-crisis-and-Chernobyl-key-differences

 

"The Japanese reactors are a completely different design known as Boiling Water Reactors, which are old and tested, and have three quite elaborate systems of containment designed to constrain radioactive leakage, points out Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in Cambridge, Mass. “The third containment is designed, built, and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown,” he writes."

 

Before and after pics:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm

 

 

All those airliners swept away in the first pic :shocking:

 

Man found on roof 15 KM out at sea.

 

 

http://www.smh.com.au/world/man-found-alive-two-days-after-being-swept-15km-out-to-sea-20110313-1bt2o.html?from=smh_sb

 

 

San Andreas next :unsure:?

 

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/03/13/the-scariest-earthquake-is-yet-to-come.html

Edited March 14, 2011 by hassata

[sobek]

To be honest with ya, I think the area around that nuke plant is toally irradiated, because ontop and outside of the concrete containment building, their is a pool of water with spent plutonium and uranium fuel ( like you see with other nuke plants, a large swimming pool type thing ), no way that survived the explosion since it wasnt inside the containment dome.

 

Yes, the spent fuel is kept in pools around the top of the reactor, sealed in zircalloy cylinders, but these can take a hell of a beating. So, unless there was any sort of event that heated those cylinders past their melting temperature of over 2000°C, the water in those top pools remains only slightly activated from the residual radiation of the fuel rods, since no chain reaction takes place in those pools.

 

While it is true that e.g., Caesium isotopes have the potential to make the area uninhabitable for a significant time, it remains to be seen, which elements have been deposited around the plant in what concentration.

[Namenlos Ein]

Matsushima AFB

 

 

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1137903&postcount=383

Edited March 14, 2011 by Namenlos Ein

[bumfire]

BBC News 24 is reporting that Official news from Japan is reporting that the fuel rods from Reactor number 2 are "Fully Exposed" and no water is cooling it, as the water thats being continuously pumped into it, is leaking somewhere and not reaching the reactor.

 

A Full meltdown is now more likely, however it should still be contained within the dome if a full meltdown happens.

 

Even if the core melts through the concrete base of containment dome, which it is designed to do, the core will land on a bed of graphite which would let the core cool naturally whilst still preventing any fallout from escaping.

 

Bad news that the rods are fully exposed, but good news that their is a contingency plan in the event of such a situation, which it was designed into the building when it was being built.

 

I suspect that this one will fully meltdown, especially if the rods are exposed and water just isnt getting into the thing to cool it.

 

Maybe the decay heat thats left isnt enough to actually melt the rods ? if it isnt, maybe some venting is all that will be needed to prevent the thing from rupturing due to the pressure ?

 

Lets pray that they come up with something that works, as a full meltdown is a worst case situation that nobody wants, even though in theory it should all be contained safely, as it would be a major problem to cleanup.

 

Fingers crossed that they can figure something out quickly to get water into the thing to start cooling it down.

Edited March 14, 2011 by bumfire

[Rusty_M]

Ah nature: the most powerful force in the world. Puts all of our best technology to shame sometimes.