Real Combat Startup.

[Snoopy]

He didn't give me details pertaining to procedure in operations, but during training you're really expected to know everything without reading, at least that's how it came across.

They even grill you on these things and you're expected to tell them everything in perfect detail right then and there, IIRC.

 

I also met with the east coast Strike Eagle demo team, and they didn't seem to use any checklists whatsoever when doing their stuff.

 

Are they in Tech School? if so yes you have to test but again they will tell you a million times throughout tech school and when you get to the line you aren't to memorize tech data. Reason being is it changes. One example of this is we have refueled (IAW -12JG) the same way for years, last year they changed it for some reason. If you didn't review the TO you wouldn't have known that.

 

As to the demo team, as I said above, daily tasks like launch/recovery we don't have to have the -6 Workcards in hand and read step by step. We have the A-10 east coast demo team at moody, when they launch you're right you won't see a TO out anyplace but it's nearby if they needed it.

 

Thanks for the input Paul :)

 

No prob :D

[robmlufc]

Yeah, and the number of sorties they are flying is mental. Every time I walked outside to the flightline there seemed to be a 2 ship either going up to coming down. A lot more than the Tornados were managing that's for sure. :D

 

That's because the tonkas are always u/s! :)

[Eddie]

That's because the tonkas are always u/s! :)

 

Well, I didn't want to say it but.......

[uri_ba]

If you're scrambling A10s for Air to Air, you've got more pressing issues to worry about :smilewink:

 

Never said I was talking about A10s :)

First time I saw one of them was at Eglin AFB last year.

 

I was talking about other airframes which I'm more familiar with background of their their ground operation. basics should be the same.

 

when you are in A-A scramble you need to be airborn ASAP. some time you'll sit in the squadron and wait, sometimes you are in the cockpit waiting and sometimes engine is on and you are on STBY.

 

on A-G it's more complex.

if you are headed out for a strike on a pre-determined target, you should have time to study the target and plan the attack.

if you are out on something else (emergency response to an event) you brief enroute (it's developing so targets may change very rapidly). so the alert time is much shorter in these cases.

and if there is a PLANNED ground forces activity, and you know they might need air support, you are on station when as they ingress and leave once they are out safely (or the next formation arrived on station to releave you).

 

This is probably the case in Afganistan. because you always have something going on. I'll not be surprised if there are two pairs on station in different sectors supporting multiple ground OPS at the same time. with their "releaving" jets on short notice to scramble on station if the on station jets are tasked for an event.

[chaos]

GGTharos,

I'm pretty sure you cannot align an INS in-flight. Did you mean HARS?

[Eddie]

GGTharos,

I'm pretty sure you cannot align an INS in-flight. Did you mean HARS?

 

No, he meant INS(EGI). You can in fact align them in flight, you just choose the in-flight align option. ;)

[Mugenjin]

Takes really long though (atleast longer than on the ground) and you need to fly a steady course.

[chaos]

No, he meant INS(EGI). You can in fact align them in flight, you just choose the in-flight align option. ;)

 

Roger that. Usually alignment in the air is good enough for "re-aligning" ADI/HSI only and not for navigation purposes. In order to align the platform one needs a static position to find the local vertical. I understand that in-flight alignment takes a bit longer but it would seem impossible to me to achieve the same accuracy as alignment on the ground.

 

Then again... there's GPS updating so disregard all of the above... ;)

[Eddie]

Roger that. Usually alignment in the air is good enough for "re-aligning" ADI/HSI only and not for navigation purposes. In order to align the platform one needs a static position to find the local vertical. I understand that in-flight alignment takes a bit longer but it would seem impossible to me to achieve the same accuracy as alignment on the ground.

 

Then again... there's GPS updating so disregard all of the above... ;)

 

Yeah an INS only system would be able to provide instruments only with an inflight align, for the most part, some can be updated with current position etc to allow navigation to some level of accuracy. But as you said yourself, with modern nav systems there is the GPS to help things along and provide a useable alignment. It just takes longer.

[uri_ba]

In old times, when INS accuracy was required (TOSS bombing for example), you would have a point, not too far away on you flight path to the target. which is very distinct and with a known location. you would have this point configured into the system and you would fly overhead and hit the mark key to the INS.

 

that would reset the location to preset and correct drifts.

 

it could have been a bridge, a major junction or even artificial structures.

[Eddie]

Indeed, and pilots still tend to do the same things in flightplans nowadays, even though they don't technically HAVE to with GPS etc. It's always good to have a visual reference to confirm your waypoint is where it should be.

[Le0kong]

In old times, when INS accuracy was required (TOSS bombing for example), you would have a point, not too far away on you flight path to the target. which is very distinct and with a known location. you would have this point configured into the system and you would fly overhead and hit the mark key to the INS.

 

that would reset the location to preset and correct drifts.

 

it could have been a bridge, a major junction or even artificial structures.

 

I think you can do that on the A-10C with the update function on the CDU.

[WRFirefox]

i dont remember for sure, but in the book "Vipers in the storm" at the atlantic transfer they slaved the GPS to the INS from time to time???

[Snoopy]

With the A-10 it isn't very often we are on alert. As I said before in the 90s when we deployed to Kuwait to enforce the Southern No Fly Zone over Iraq we had 4 A-10s on alert, 2 primary and 2 spares. Our only reason for having alert birds was for CSAR (Combat Search & Rescue). We would only launch if we had a jet crash in Iraq (which the two times I was deployed we never launched an alert bird).

 

We had an alert crew which consisted of two crew chiefs and a weapons crew. Every morning we would do a walk around the jets, LOX if required and verify all switches are "hot cocked" as they should be. Every few days the pilots would step to the ACFT and we would fire up the jet to ensure all the systems worked as advertised.

 

The maintainers (crew chiefs & weapons crew) stayed at the alert pad 24/7 except when going to the chow hall for food. If we had any coalition jets "in the box" (flying over Iraq) we were on a 30 minute alert posture meaning within 30 minutes of the "launch" notice our jets had to be in the air. We exercised this from time to time and basically we get the notice and us crew chiefs would go to each jet (including the spares) fire up the APU, start the INS alignment (lovely A models) and go to the next jet until all 4 were up and running. The pilot normally arrived 15 to 20 minutes after the launch notice. During exercises they would simulate launch and we would just shut everything down.

 

When I was stationed at Osan AB, ROK in 97-98 we didn't have any A-10s on alert. We did have live munitions in each HAS and the idea was that we would have enough notice that the North was going to attack the South. Don't agree with that thought process but we exercised often getting the simulated notice. When we got that Crew Chiefs would uncover the jets and do a quick inspection then weapons would remove any training munitions, reload the GAU-8 with combat mix and upload live munitions (MK-82, CBU, MAV, rockets, etc.)

 

Obviously for OPSEC reasons I can't post on here what our current Afghanistan and Osan requirements are but figured I would share what we did in the 90s concerning A-10s and alert procedures.

 

As to "Real Combat Startup" When deployed you launch the jet for a normal combat sortie (if non alert) just as you do everyday stateside. The only difference is the pilot has to use checklists for live munitions and EOR is a little different because of arming live munitions.

Edited March 16, 2011 by Snoopy