Reverse Thrust Engines?

[ErichVon]

This is the only thread I found on the title subject using Advanced Search. It is a long thread. I have not found it mentioned, yet.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62232&highlight=reverse+thrust

 

Does this DCS: A-10C Warthog incorporate the sliding engines mechanism found on commercial jets known as "reverse thrust" ?

 

I sometimes, especially on short runways like the training area X runway, come in immediately on dry concrete as the stall horn is sounding just before I land and can even make this short runway.

 

If there is a switch for reverse thrust I have not found it.

 

A trick I used to "Aces High" to kill a lot of air speed quickly is just hit rudder hard and opposite aileron to stay level. But some planes will do a wing dump or even snap stall if not careful.

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

Edited April 21, 2011 by ErichVon

[Merlin216]

A-10s do not have reverse thrust. Most fighters dont even have it.

[Jonney]

Some do, like Panavia Tornado for example with the use of 'clamshell doors', but reverse thrust will only deploy once the 'weight on wheel' switch is active.

i.e. you have to be on the ground with weight on the wheels before it will deploy.

No aircraft is capable of 'reverse thrust' whilst it is still in the air.

[Merlin216]

Some do, like Panavia Tornado for example with the use of 'clamshell doors', but reverse thrust will only deploy once the 'weight on wheel' switch is active.

i.e. you have to be on the ground with weight on the wheels before it will deploy.

No aircraft is capable of 'reverse thrust' whilst it is still in the air.

 

I think the C-17s can. Obviously not a whole lot, but when they do their Tactical Descents they can deploy a little bit of reverse thrust in their insane dive.

[Avilator]

Some do, like Panavia Tornado for example with the use of 'clamshell doors', but reverse thrust will only deploy once the 'weight on wheel' switch is active.

i.e. you have to be on the ground with weight on the wheels before it will deploy.

No aircraft is capable of 'reverse thrust' whilst it is still in the air.

 

I think the C-17s can. Obviously not a whole lot, but when they do their Tactical Descents they can deploy a little bit of reverse thrust in their insane dive.

 

I'm not sure of the the C-17, but I am positive that there are aircraft that can reverse in flight, like the Twin Otter and other DeHavilland designs. I would guess that most of the aircraft that can do this are propller driven.

 

@ErichVon:

A trick I used to "Aces High" to kill a lot of air speed quickly is just hit rudder hard and opposite aileron to stay level. But some planes will do a wing dump or even snap stall if not careful.

 

 

What you describe here is a forward slip, and is not recommended for slowing down quickly, but rather assisting in keeping speed in check when descinding over obstacles. In the A-10, you have a pair of massive speed brakes. Make use of them. Try flying the approach with them set at 30% ~ 40%, and carrying some power to maintan a reasonable glidepath. The engines will be spooled up to a point where they are more responsive, and you have almost instant drag when you idle the throttle over the threshold of the runway.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Avilator

[charonx]

This video answers the C-17 question about thrust reversers. :)

 

[SonofEil]

I've seen C-17's use reverse thrust to, well, reverse out of tight parking spots. I'm also curious about the ability to deploy in-air and if this is actually used. I kind of doubt it.

Giving a little bump of reverse pitch on a prop while on approach is not uncommon from my experience.

[Speed]

A-10 in fact does have reverse thrust. It's called GAU-8.

[Avilator]

This video answers the C-17 question about thrust reversers. :)

 

Actually, no it doesn't, because the cascades are still covered when the plane touches the ground.

 

A-10 in fact does have reverse thrust. It's called GAU-8.

 

:thumbup:

[Merlin216]

I've seen C-17's use reverse thrust to, well, reverse out of tight parking spots. I'm also curious about the ability to deploy in-air and if this is actually used. I kind of doubt it.

Giving a little bump of reverse pitch on a prop while on approach is not uncommon from my experience.

 

I have been a huge C-17 fan for quite some time, and I love to see their Demo. I fortunately get to see it again at Chino next month.

 

I was pretty positive the C-17 could do it before, and I have found information proving it. According to the Reverse Thrust article on wikipedia the C-17 is one of the few that can do it. I asked an old airline pilot about that as far as commercial planes go and he assured me it would be bad news. Anyway, wikipedia is not my hard source, but this video. You can clearly see the pilot pull the throttles back and pull the reversers just before starting the Tactical Descent.

 

[ErichVon]

I have been a huge C-17 fan for quite some time, and I love to see their Demo. I fortunately get to see it again at Chino next month.

 

I was pretty positive the C-17 could do it before, and I have found information proving it. According to the Reverse Thrust article on wikipedia the C-17 is one of the few that can do it. I asked an old airline pilot about that as far as commercial planes go and he assured me it would be bad news. Anyway, wikipedia is not my hard source, but this video. You can clearly see the pilot pull the throttles back and pull the reversers just before starting the Tactical Descent.

 

 

I have seen some interesting things happen on the Navy side just to impress some admiral. In 1974 I had duty section Stateside and had to direct traffic to an air show at Point Mugu. A few high ranking officers in dress whites got onboard a Goodyear blimp and that sucker almost went straight vertical, nose 1st, about 30 degrees off vertical, I bet 2 thousand feet, really quick.

 

 

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

Edited April 22, 2011 by ErichVon

[scheffchen]

thanks for the great videos guys!

[Loz]

.............................. I asked an old airline pilot about that as far as commercial planes go and he assured me it would be bad news. ..........................................

 

The Hawker Siddley Trident was a little before my time in British Airways but many of the Captains that I flew with, when I first started, had operated it in the 60's and 70's.

The use of airborne reverse thrust was certified, and often used, achieving incredible descent rates of up to 10,000 ft/min.

For those that have never flown big jets, one of the surprises, is how difficult it can be, from high level, to get rid of excess altitude. There is a lot of inertia and potential energy in a big jet going at Mach .8 or so at high altitude and getting rid of that in a way that suits Air Traffic Control can be mighty difficult.

 

Incidentaly, Concorde was also certified to use Reverse Idle in the air, to assist in reducing speed from supersonic cruise.

[ARM505]

Boeing 737's (300 onwards) can too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....but only under 10' radar alt, ie just prior to landing. Note that 'can' doesn't mean 'should' ;) It's meant to allow one to start the whole process of getting decent reverse thrust levels on.

 

On a related note, a Lauda Air 767 disintegrated in flight due to uncommaned reverser deployment.

[Loz]

Boeing 737's (300 onwards) can too!

 

.but only under 10' radar alt, ie just prior to landing. Note that 'can' doesn't mean 'should' ;) It's meant to allow one to start the whole process of getting decent reverse thrust levels on.

 

On a related note, a Lauda Air 767 disintegrated in flight due to uncommaned reverser deployment.

They certainly were NOT allowed to use in flight reverse at any altitude, under UK Certification when I flew the 3s, 4s, and 5s.

I'd be interested to know where you got this info from. Do you fly them?

[storemaster]

Also the Concorde was able to deploy 2 of the 4 reversers in flight to reduce speed during decend.

[Smokin Hole]

The older 737 (-100, -200) could technically open the clamshells in flight though doing so is insane. What if one or both fail to stow? The fan powered 737s need weight on wheels. The braking authority of reverse thrust is so minor that we no longer use it at my airline unless the runway is short or there is a turnoff that we really want to make.

[Smokin Hole]

Also, regarding the Lauda crash, pilots in the simulator who were ready for it felt that the reverser deployment was very recoverable. But if you are late to idle the thrust on the deployed engine, it's not going to be pretty, and it wasn't. The Lauda 767 broke apart because of loss of control, stall, and resultant dive, not directly due to reverser deployment.

[Zag]

Don't forget the Viggen: here, the reverser isn't completely deployed

 

 

And I think (not sure) that the Av-8 Harrier can do reverse thrust inflight .

Edited April 22, 2011 by Zag

[ARM505]

They certainly were NOT allowed to use in flight reverse at any altitude, under UK Certification when I flew the 3s, 4s, and 5s.

I'd be interested to know where you got this info from. Do you fly them?

 

Yes, I fly them - and no, I didn't say they were certified for use in normal flight, just that they could be deployed below 10' RALT, ie just prior to touchdown :)

 

The thrust reverser can be deployed when either radio altimeter senses less than

1 0 feet altitude, or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode.

Movement of the reverse thrust levers is mechanically restricted until the forward

thrust levers are in the idle position.

 

(Boeing B737-33A FCOM volume 2, page 7.20.10, it's the same for all classics and the NG too IIRC. I have flown the -200, -500, and am current on the -300, 400, and -800)

 

I used to fly Twotters too, and if I remember correctly they were not certified for reverse in flight. That didn't seem to stop a few people I know trying idle reverse decents (fun apparently), nor me getting them into reverse just prior to touchdown (on ridiculously short mud patch strips in deepest darkest Africa whilst flying humanitarian aid missions)

Edited April 22, 2011 by ARM505

[EtherealN]

Don't forget the Viggen: here, the reverser isn't completely deployed

 

 

And I think (not sure) that the Av-8 Harrier can do reverse thrust inflight .

 

Not quite "reverse". Reversing indicates a thrust vector at or close to directly forward. The harrier can vector it's nozzles slightly forward, but it's just a few degrees. The total thrust vector is still almost directly down. Used for precision when landing vertically.

[hassata]

Always nice to see how many RL pilots post here.

[JoeDiamond]

The Concorde was able to use it's inboard thrust reversers in flight, with the inboard engines at idle thrust only.

[beaupower32]

 

at the 1:20 mark you can see the pilot apply the thrust reversers on in mid flight.

 

I was a engine mechanic on the C-17 for 4 years. They are capable to go into thrust reverse in the air, but it cant go past idol, as there is a stop that prevents the throttles from going any further.

[Merlin216]

 

at the 1:20 mark you can see the pilot apply the thrust reversers on in mid flight.

 

I was a engine mechanic on the C-17 for 4 years. They are capable to go into thrust reverse in the air, but it cant go past idol, as there is a stop that prevents the throttles from going any further.

 

Yeah thats the video I used earlier. Thanks for the extra info. I knew they could do it and was pretty sure they couldn't go far, its nice to get that extra information though. How are the 17s for maintenance? I would assume being a little newer they aren't that bad but I am not a mechanic either.

 

 

 

I have seen some interesting things happen on the Navy side just to impress some admiral. In 1974 I had duty section Stateside and had to direct traffic to an air show at Point Mugu. A few high ranking officers in dress whites got onboard a Goodyear blimp and that sucker almost went straight vertical, nose 1st, about 30 degrees off vertical, I bet 2 thousand feet, really quick.

 

 

 

Erich

:pilotfly:

 

That is crazy. How was Point Mugu? I love California, but haven't been up along the coast that far.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Merlin216