GAU-8 Damaged Reduced After Patch?

[Panzertard]

Why is there no track file attached to this problem?

Could have saved you gents from 2 pages of debate. ;)

[EtherealN]

But debate is so much fun! :P

[159th_Viper]

Engage from 0.7nm - 0.5nm. 100-150 rounds are sufficient to cook all MBT's in SIM, irrespective of where you are attacking from, be it above, to the side or even below if that floats your boat.

 

If the tanks survive, you're doing it wrong - practice.

 

I'm calling BS on this one...........Im still waiting for someone to explain how this tank (log detail above) can return accurate fire after getting hit twice by an A-10's GAU-8. Most importantly, how is still survived and still combat effective. Its impossible.

 

You have put insufficient rounds on target. I'll post a track in a wee while illustrating how to disable and then destroy.

[159th_Viper]

**Disclaimer: This track is used for illustrative purposes only and does not represent how I engage MBT's - merely confirming the principle stated**

 

 

OK - Here we go: Scenario as follows - Engagement of 2 x M1 Abrams MBT's with 12.7mm HMG and 7.62mm LMG.

 

 

 

Pass #1: Drop onto first MBT from approx Angels 10. Approx a one and a half sec burst to disable the HMG which is always the one that gets you (as illustrated in Pass #2).

 

 

Pass #2: Turn into MBT #2 and get close enough to draw HMG fire - confirm with damage taken. Pressed attack and destroyed MBT.

 

 

Pass #3: Extend and turn into MBT #1 and overfly target and confirm LMG fire from MBT. Apparent that the MBT now cannot hit the broadside of a barn door due to previous damage sustained. Target overflown with no damage at all/impact from LMG to Airframe.

 

 

Pass #4: Turn into target, draw fire from LMG (miss) and destroy MBT #2.

 

 

Both MBT's skill level at excellent. I am almost certain that more rounds on target will eliminate the LMG too without cooking the tank (seem to remember from earlier builds). Be that as it may, did not test for that in the provided track - maybe something to look into later.

 

Track: [ATTACH]52567[/ATTACH]

[GGTharos]

After reading the whole thread I'm going to say this to you:

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

Put up a track so we can tell you exactly how to correct your technique.

No offense.

 

I've done a few strafing runs on the first campaign and I've noticed it's taking a lot of rounds to destroy a tank. I remember before the patch it wasn't so difficult. Did they reduce the damage for the main gun or am I mistaken?

 

I know Im hitting my target because I see the gun bullet holes in the ground around the target area through my TGP. In the real world less than a dozen direct hits is enough to make a t-80 continue its career in a museum. If I spit 400 rounds at it and they all landed within a 30ft radius, surely at least 12 found their mark. But yet the tank isn't even smoking.

 

I just hope Im mistaken and the damage from the gun wasn't reduced.

[159th_Viper]

Herewith 2 further tracks illustrating the reduction of MBT effectiveness/accuracy as a result of damage sustained (T80U and T72) - Notice how rate of fire and accuracy decreases as they take more hits from the GAU-8:

 

[ATTACH]52584[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]52585[/ATTACH]

[infraslove]

If I may.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72549&highlight=tankbusting

 

good practice mission by strongharm and 3 more pages of tank busting discussion!

[Rider1]

OK, so we won't see the MG fire stop completely, just decreasing accuracy and and rate of fire. That answers my question. Thanks! :thumbup:

[BBQ]

Ok--I've had a few beers, but take a look at the track. I don't know if my gunplay is accurate or not--all I know is that pre-108, all the tanks would be dead from the same runs.

[159th_Viper]

Do you think that a two-ship attack on a tank, one hitting lightly from 1.0nm and the other shooting for the kill at 0.5nm might be a good idea? Would the damage from the first "light harassment" damage the optics or whatever enough to give the "kill shooter" a better chance of a safe attack?

 

 

Most definitely. I would however engage at 0.6nm and break off at 0.4nm (kill-shooter) to be safe.

 

You really need to watch out for the 12.7mm MG's. Either way the co-ordinated attack will work, provided you are accurate and time it well enough. Just remember that the MBT will pop smoke and move away once engaged so you'll have to think on the fly and be prepared to break off at 0.4nm irrespective of a successful gun-run or not - Cannot come back from a successful trench-digging exercise........

 

 

......but visibility from inside a tank isn't that good.

 

It's a targeting computer that's eyeballing you.

Edited June 12, 2011 by 159th_Viper

[GGTharos]

Poor execution, poor aim.

 

Your roll in and dive are ok, but you should also add the use of CMs.

 

Your gunnery is poor: You start firing at the correct distance, but you're firing a couple of piddly bursts. Fire at LEAST a one second burst, preferably 2 second. It's not 'BRRRP BRRRP' it's supposed to be 'BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP'.

 

In addition, I don't know if that's you fighting the stick, but thepipper is bouncing when you fire. Don't correct it, leave it alone once the PAC is on.

 

Your pull-out is poor. Quit staring at the tanks. Fire, roll, pull away.

 

Ok--I've had a few beers, but take a look at the track. I don't know if my gunplay is accurate or not--all I know is that pre-108, all the tanks would be dead from the same runs.

[Teriander]

Ok, it does seem to be more effective when attacking from behind, and at a steeper downward angle. Which I find really strange.

 

I've done some research, seen the History channel, Googled, Youtubed, Wiki, etc. and I can not for the life of me find ANYTHING that says an A-10 is not effective against a T-80 or T-72 if attacking from the front. In fact some of the Videos I've seen clearly show a tank being attacked and the front of the tank is the target, no problem is destroying it at all.

 

Why should it matter in this sim if you're attacking it from the front or behind? I know the tank has thicker armor in the front, but no tank can survive the GAU-8 Avenger within .7 miles of burst rounds.

 

From what people have said in this forum, attacking the tank from behind angels 10 and within .7 miles is how you kill the tanks. Is that a correct assumption? I seriously doubt that out of the 900 tanks destroyed in the first Iraq war (those of which destroyed by the GAU-8) all those kills that were done from attacking the tanks from behind because hitting from the front or side would be useless.

 

If thats the case, they need to give the A-10 a new nickname. From "Tankbuster" to "Behind the Tankbuster"

[GGTharos]

Ok, it does seem to be more effective when attacking from behind, and at a steeper downward angle. Which I find really strange.

 

..... not the least bit strange.

 

I've done some research, seen the History channel, Googled, Youtubed, Wiki, etc. and I can not for the life of me find ANYTHING that says an A-10 is not effective against a T-80 or T-72 if attacking from the front. In fact some of the Videos I've seen clearly show a tank being attacked and the front of the tank is the target, no problem is destroying it at all.

You mean old T-55's or M-48's with thin RHA armor? Yeah, those aren't exactly a huge challenge.

T-72's and T-80's have up-front armor that will stop 120mm tank rounds. Do you see any problems with 30mm vs. front tank armor now? ;) Even the T-62 isn't a candidate for a frontal attack, which is plainly laid out in the USAF's A-10 T-62 coloring book intended to train pilots on which parts of the tank they should attack. Frontal attacks are classified as a waste of ammo.

 

Why should it matter in this sim if you're attacking it from the front or behind? I know the tank has thicker armor in the front, but no tank can survive the GAU-8 Avenger within .7 miles of burst rounds.

Because that's the way it is in RL. You have no idea what you're talking about. The GAU-8 provides at most 68mm penetration, and that's a 0.3nm shot. Front armor can easily provide over 500mm RHA equivalent protection.

 

From what people have said in this forum, attacking the tank from behind angels 10 and within .7 miles is how you kill the tanks. Is that a correct assumption? I seriously doubt that out of the 900 tanks destroyed in the first Iraq war (those of which destroyed by the GAU-8) all those kills that were done from attacking the tanks from behind because hitting from the front or side would be useless.

No, they were done with cluster bombs and mavericks and PGM's, and other tank-busting munitions. On the other hand, light armored vehicles like APCs can be attacked from any aspect.

 

If thats the case, they need to give the A-10 a new nickname. From "Tankbuster" to "Behind the Tankbuster"

You need to get your information straight. It's still 'the' tankbuster :)

[Teriander]

GGTharos, Ok. I'll give you that... Except for one thing. It should still be "Behind the Tankbuster" :)

[Conure]

..... not the least bit strange.

 

You mean old T-55's or M-48's with thin RHA armor? Yeah, those aren't exactly a huge challenge.

T-72's and T-80's have up-front armor that will stop 120mm tank rounds. Do you see any problems with 30mm vs. front tank armor now? ;) Even the T-62 isn't a candidate for a frontal attack, which is plainly laid out in the USAF's A-10 T-62 coloring book intended to train pilots on which parts of the tank they should attack. Frontal attacks are classified as a waste of ammo.

 

Because that's the way it is in RL. You have no idea what you're talking about. The GAU-8 provides at most 68mm penetration, and that's a 0.3nm shot. Front armor can easily provide over 500mm RHA equivalent protection.

 

No, they were done with cluster bombs and mavericks and PGM's, and other tank-busting munitions. On the other hand, light armored vehicles like APCs can be attacked from any aspect.

 

You need to get your information straight. It's still 'the' tankbuster :)

 

 

Rofl, behind the tankbuster :D

[Rider1]

Try this test. Switch to target practice rounds. Try attacking from various angles and distances. Assuming that the ballistics are similar between TP and CM, you can get a good visual indication of how those rounds are flying and impacting.

 

From 1.5 to 2 miles out, you can see the arc of the rounds and the spread pattern. I would imagine that those rounds have lost most of their kinetic energy. The tankers probably hear a hell of racket, but the rounds would be really just bouncing off and making a mess of anything external on the tank.

 

As you increase your angle and closure, you can see the trajectory flatten out and the spread get tighter. Notice how even at 1 to .7 out, your GAU is still like a big shotgun, with a good percentage of those rounds still missing and ricocheting off the ground all around the tank.

 

Gives you an idea of why it takes a lot of rounds and extreme precision to effectively take them out.

 

As an aside, using a rear attack at the optimum angle and a 2 second burst from .7 to way too close for comfort distance, I was able to destroy a T72 with the TP rounds. Keep in mind I was close enough to see the rounds go under the tank :)

[BBQ]

GEEEZ--I prefaced it with "Ok--so had a few beers..."

 

I definately need to go back to the range for practice, beers or no beers. At least GG, I can always count on a nice, HONEST opinion from you! hehe

 

Poor execution, poor aim.

 

Your roll in and dive are ok, but you should also add the use of CMs.

 

Your gunnery is poor: You start firing at the correct distance, but you're firing a couple of piddly bursts. Fire at LEAST a one second burst, preferably 2 second. It's not 'BRRRP BRRRP' it's supposed to be 'BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP'.

 

In addition, I don't know if that's you fighting the stick, but thepipper is bouncing when you fire. Don't correct it, leave it alone once the PAC is on.

 

Your pull-out is poor. Quit staring at the tanks. Fire, roll, pull away.

[stubboyo]

Actually, I wanted to ask are you gonna fix that SPI circle disappearing, obviously there's some png image which just hides all behind it, but I doubt you loose your SPI from your view in real A-10

 

I believe there's a setting you can change with the HUD in TEST mode that makes it so the SPI symbology is not occluded by the gun pipper (so you'll still see the diamond when you're shooting at it). Try looking around in the menus there after your preflight BIT. I find that the diamond gets in the way of seeing my target when I'm in effective gun range so I prefer to have it occluded.

 

I've likewise been frustrated by the mounted MGs. My most ignominious end was getting killed by the mounted MG on an armed speedboat. It took out both my engines and hydraulics and I wasn't able to recover from my guns pass :mad: Learned my lesson to keep a good half mile between me and those pesky pea-shooters.

 

-Stubboyo

[BlackRazor]

I believe there's a setting you can change with the HUD in TEST mode that makes it so the SPI symbology is not occluded by the gun pipper (so you'll still see the diamond when you're shooting at it). Try looking around in the menus there after your preflight BIT. I find that the diamond gets in the way of seeing my target when I'm in effective gun range so I prefer to have it occluded.

-Stubboyo

 

Nope, there is a setting that prevents the SPI symbology to be occluded by the CCIP gun cross, the gun pipper will however always occlude the SPI symbology.

[Rider1]

Here is a track I made that you may find interesting.

 

I was playing around with the Target Practice ammo, watching the ballistics, spread patterns and the ricochets. I set up various targets and made passes at them and was getting pretty good results!

 

I was really liking seeing the amount of bullets spraying out of the gun, and how violent it was. I always pictured in my head the bullets coming out like a laser beam. Nope. The GAU really just projectile vomits bullets at the target. :)

 

So I set up a few tanks and was able to shoot them from the rear with TP and get some kills.

 

This track is 4 T80 tanks I arranged on the infamous 'X of death'. I set the tanks skill level to random. Attacking from the front with Target Practice ammo, I was able to make 4 passes for 4 kills. I did get some MG fire coming up, but see from the track, I was in more danger from flying through my own ricochets .. :joystick:

 

Edit to say I also tried it with the CM using the same technique and the results were the same.

T80s Busted Front.trk

Edited June 13, 2011 by Rider1