arriflex Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Hey gang- before investing in the HOTAS Warthog I wanted to explore it's controls and how they may apply to future DCS titles. I know that buttons are fully re-mappable for future titles, my questions are: In the event of a DCS F/A-18 or F-15C or F-15D,E are the weapons systems so dissimilar that a new controller would be necessary to fully harness and map them, or are the weapons control switches and buttons pretty common among combat aircraft? In the event that there are extra weapons systems controls in a future title, could a modifier key be set up to just switch the WH HOTAS controls to the new system (once mapped)? Thanks for your input and entertaining my newbish questions.
Shez Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 I can see TM relaesing a new HOTAS system for the next bird. Problem solved! :D _:Windows 10 64 Bit, I7 3770 3.4Ghz, 16 Gigs Ram, GTX 960, TM Warthog, Track IR 5 w/Pro Clip:_
arriflex Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 Although that may be the case, my question really pertains to the Warthog HOTAS and it's forward compatibility.
ivanwfr Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 In the event that there are extra weapons systems controls in a future title, could a modifier key be set up to just switch the WH HOTAS controls to the new system (once mapped)? A better answer would be Yes! ...Unless you want P&P. TARGET gives you scripting capabilities you will never get from any other manufacturer. So much so that very few are those who use it in these forums. From a commercial stand point, is is obviously uncalled for and they won't do the same mistake twice. ...I feel so lonely looking into TARGET - Advanced programming :cry:
arriflex Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 A better answer would be Yes! ...Unless you want P&P. TARGET gives you scripting capabilities you will never get from any other manufacturer. So much so that very few are those who use it in these forums. From a commercial stand point, is is obviously uncalled for and they won't do the same mistake twice. ...I feel so lonely looking into TARGET - Advanced programming :cry: What is P&P? When you say it is uncalled for, do you mean they didn't need to include the feature and probably won't in the future? Thanks!
ivanwfr Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 P&P - plug and play... ...as in open your wallet, purchase, plug then play. ...as not in learn how it works, what you can do with it and get involved in order to play superman without a keyboard. This is what we do with this sim and with HOTAS being the main piece of hardware involved, it deserves some effort. And about the scripting feature, I am so surprised they did something Logitech considers completely unnecessary (look at Setpoint openness - or lack of) + how - even simmers - don't care to use even the "easy" GUI customization tool... This is obviously a commercial mistake! ... this energy could obviously have been spent into some useless marketing effort with the same results ;)
RogueRunner Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Plug and Play. Good luck thinking TM would bring out another HOTAS soon. It took them 10+ years to get the WH out the door. Regarding forward compatibility. You do not need TARGET really. Just map everything in game which will work fine for the majority of people. For those few others, they could use TARGET to put dvery button in game onyo the HOTAS. With the price of ammunition these days do not expect a warning shot.
S77th-konkussion Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) (ivanwfr) ^^^ an employee of Guillemont. CH scripting is just as advanced- if not FAR more so- and is so much more polished and straightforward. I'm not saying don't get one- but collect a wide variety of opinions from real end users. When looking beyond warthog now you become reliant on the software to make things happen. This is where TM has failed epically in the past. For YEARS. So get plenty of input from real people- not employees. Edited June 12, 2011 by S77th-konkussion [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
arriflex Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 Found this in the DCS A-10C Beta Manual. It is encouraging for plug and play, or at least near plug and play of a couple potential DCS Aircraft: The most visibly obvious result of the upgrades has been to the cockpit of the A-10C. The Precision Engagement (PE) Modification Program made several important changes to the cockpit to support the avionics upgrades: New control stick based on the F-16 stick. Although it is a full-deflection stick (unlike the F- 16), it has a much greater level of functionality compared to the older stick based on the F- 4 ―Phantom‖ stick. The right throttle of the throttle quadrant has been removed and replaced by the same left throttle used in the F-15E. As with the new control stick, the new left throttle provides an additional level of control and functionality.
ivanwfr Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 :shocking: You see, once more! a reassuring advice to steer away from TARGET. Why that ? Why did Thrustmaster did care to give us this customization tool ? Why would they bother to take customization into account when they read this from simmers ? Please would you care to explain this promotion of passivity ?
ivanwfr Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 (ivanwfr) ^^^ an employee of Guillemont. CH scripting is just as advanced- if not FAR more so- and is so much more polished and straightforward. I don't give a dam for Guillemot image. I'm not and to clearly show it, I'm ready to say anything that I could not do if I were: ;) For instance, "my boss is a dumb ass, he does not understand anything to TARGET and I wrote it in the main DCS community forums so that everybody would not about it! " As to CH scripting, I don't know and, as I have a TM Warthog, it's not relevant to me. Maybe it's even better than TARGET and, if it the case, I'm happy to have another manufacturer caring more than Logitech does in opening for customization "that works".
S77th-konkussion Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Right... [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
Shez Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Sorry was tyring to be funny in my first post. It would just be like if you had a generic HOTAS system. Just find a configuration that works and program it in. _:Windows 10 64 Bit, I7 3770 3.4Ghz, 16 Gigs Ram, GTX 960, TM Warthog, Track IR 5 w/Pro Clip:_
Sarge55 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 Exactly Shez but with one slight difference. The TM Warthog does not have rotaries which are handy for manipulating radar etc. The hats will work and there are lots of them but not quite the same. The X-52 has them and my old one is waiting on the shelf just in case. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] i7 10700K OC 5.1GHZ / 500GB SSD & 1TB M:2 & 4TB HDD / MSI Gaming MB / GTX 1080 / 32GB RAM / Win 10 / TrackIR 4 Pro / CH Pedals / TM Warthog
arriflex Posted June 12, 2011 Author Posted June 12, 2011 No worries Shez, I'm just bristly from "entrenched forum standard operating procedures towards newcomers syndrome" :)
Advicepuppy Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 That's why I got the X65. It's more universal, while holding plenty of similarities to the WH.
Revvin Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 CH Scripting to me is far easier than TARGET's but maybe I'm just more familiar with CH's that uses one GUI to do simple and complex (scripting) programming of my gear. If ED come up with an F16 sim next then perhaps Thrustmaster will just re-release the HOTAS Cougar as a standalone USB device that could be combined in TARGET with the Warthog stick which is just the same as the Cougar F16 stick but with an extra button.
Phantom88 Posted June 12, 2011 Posted June 12, 2011 I believe The real life A-10C and F-15E Throttle are the same,So here's hoping the next module is a MudHen! :) Patrick
DocSigma Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned previously, but TARGET is extremely versatile. Plus, the throttle is modeled after the 15C/E configuration and at the very least its a duel axis throttle so if DCS puts out a F18, or even better, an F15E, then you'd be all set. I don't think Thrustmaster will release a new HOTAS around the next DCS module, but the flight stick is removable so perhaps a stick modeled for the next dcs module. Ryzen9 5800X3D, Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite, 32Gb Gskill Trident DDR4 3600 CL16, Samsung 990 Pr0 1Tb Nvme Gen4, Evo860 1Tb 2.5 SSD and Team 1Tb 2.5 SSD, MSI Suprim X RTX4090 , Corsair h115i Platinum AIO, NZXT H710i case, Seasonic Focus 850W psu, Gigabyte Aorus AD27QHD Gsync 1ms IPS 2k monitor 144Mhz, Track ir4, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate w/extension, Virpil T50 CM3 Throttle, Saitek terrible pedals, RiftS
Cali Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 CH Scripting to me is far easier than TARGET's but maybe I'm just more familiar with CH's that uses one GUI to do simple and complex (scripting) programming of my gear. If ED come up with an F16 sim next then perhaps Thrustmaster will just re-release the HOTAS Cougar as a standalone USB device that could be combined in TARGET with the Warthog stick which is just the same as the Cougar F16 stick but with an extra button. If they did re-release the Cougar....would they fix the stuff that's broke on it still after 10 years? And when is CH gonna make at F-16 throttle to go with the stick? <------I'll pay :), I'll buy a whole new set! i7-4820k @ 3.7, Windows 7 64-bit, 16GB 1866mhz EVGA GTX 970 2GB, 256GB SSD, 500GB WD, TM Warthog, TM Cougar MFD's, Saitek Combat Pedals, TrackIR 5, G15 keyboard, 55" 4K LED
ivanwfr Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 CH Scripting to me is far easier than TARGET's but maybe I'm just more familiar with CH's that uses one GUI to do simple and complex (scripting) programming of my gear. .../... I agree with this type of observation about TARGET and I would say that more of them are obvious. As a programmer IRL I can tell this scripting tool is overkill to say the least. But driving a Ferrari to go shopping wont heart anyone, first gear is OK back and forth. Not everyone needs to use all others but for those who care learning how to, it's a blessing. About an integrated GUI, I would say that to the point where TARGET is opening advanced features, Thrutmaster is well advised not to try replacing some real editor like Notepad++ , gvim or emacs. All of us here are committed enough to read -and learn- a 600+ page manual to play with VHV, UHF, CDU, ... gauges and trouble handling... TARGET requires users to learn how to use an effective editor. I don't know what CH environment offers but their editing tools cannot compete with a one that has been use for ages by professionals... and TARGET needs one indeed... if you want to go beyond Target Script Editor manual which is just about the first stages into what you can do. Once more, as a conclusion, we all have to understand that TARGET is overkill and each has to set boundaries to the exploration area.
Revvin Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 If they did re-release the Cougar....would they fix the stuff that's broke on it still after 10 years? And when is CH gonna make at F-16 throttle to go with the stick? <------I'll pay :), I'll buy a whole new set! What I meant was just the Cougar throttle unit, a standalone without the sticky throttle action or rotaries that travel further than the output they give. If they could price it reasonably I think it would do well for them, but he'll what do I know, we just like getting new toys :) But driving a Ferrari to go shopping wont heart anyone, first gear is OK back and forth. Not everyone needs to use all others but for those who care learning how to, it's a blessing. I don't know what CH environment offers but their editing tools cannot compete with a one that has been use for ages by professionals... and TARGET needs one indeed... if you want to go beyond Target Script Editor manual which is just about the first stages into what you can do. Well I'm not going to get into an argument over which device can do what but it does appear you have no idea what the CH Control Manager is capable of in terms of advanced scripting. 1
98abaile Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 http://tsh.war-fighters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1537&start=0 Shouldn't be too hard.
ivanwfr Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Well I'm not going to get into an argument over which device can do what but it does appear you have no idea what the CH Control Manager is capable of in terms of advanced scripting. Thanks and true, and that's why I don't talk about it. What I'm saying is all about something I'm working with and would like to share and exchange experience about, not just opinion or evaluation of what I know that others don't. Maybe what CH has to offer is better than my TM device and its environment but it was not the subject. When considering TARGET scripting language, editing capabilities are not involved, they are just the collection of tools used to organize coding instructions and I simply don't use TM tools to generate my tmc and tmh files, I won't bother to compare them to CH counterpart. In short, you are right, I don't ;)
Revvin Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks and true, and that's why I don't talk about it. No problem, just rebutting your comment "I don't know what CH environment offers but their editing tools cannot compete with a one that has been use for ages by professionals" its difficult to say something can't compete when you don't know anything about it.
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