aceflier Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) Everyone with an SSD knows it has limited writes. That being said, I have windows 7x64 installed on my SSD drive. Having to instal 1.08 full and soon 1.09 maybe full again. This is using writes on my SSD. (Large ones) So should I just put A10 on my WD black HDD? I like the speed increase on loads on my SSD but if its going to ruin it over time? Any thoughts? Also I used a win7 tweak to move saved games off the SSD drive A10 is istalled on. Its now saving on the WD drive so its not writing a track to my SSD everytime I fly. Edited June 15, 2011 by aceflier [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Conure Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 Everyone with an SSD knows it has limited writes. That being said, I have windows 7x64 installed on my SSD drive. Having to instal 1.08 full and soon 1.09 maybe full again. This is using writes on my SSD. (Large ones) So should I just put A10 on my WD black HDD? I like the speed increase on loads on my SSD but if its going to ruin it over time? Any thoughts? Also I used a win7 tweak to move saved games off the SSD drive A10 is istalled on. Its now saving on the WD drive so its not writing a track to my SSD everytime I fly. what's the point in having an SSD if you don't use it for the most hard disk heavy applications? By the time you've destroyed it due to write limits I have no doubt SSDs will cost so little it wont be an issue :) Intel i7 6700k, Asus GTX1070, 16gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Rudder Pedals, Samsung Evo 850 SSD @ 500GB * 2, TrackIR 5 and 27" monitor running at 2560 * 1440, Windows 10.
Depth Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 You should be fine. If you notice low write speeds in 6 months or a year or so do a low-level format and it's fresh again :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Eggcake Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 what's the point in having an SSD if you don't use it for the most hard disk heavy applications? By the time you've destroyed it due to write limits I have no doubt SSDs will cost so little it wont be an issue :) +1 Just use your SSD. It's no problem at all. Those writes are peanuts. I'm at nearly 6TB of host writes with my Intel X25 M G2 and it's still reporting 99% Wearout :joystick:
Cibit Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 What is this Win 7 tweak pls. My concern is filling up the disk with tracks and missions. I only could afford a 64GB one. On it I have A10-C Black Shark and ROF;) i5 8600k@5.2Ghz, Asus Prime A Z370, 32Gb DDR4 3000, GTX1080 SC, Oculus Rift CV1, Modded TM Warthog Modded X52 Collective, Jetseat, W10 Pro 64 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Adding JTAC Guide //My Vid's//229th AHB
Madman777 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I got the cheapest SSD of all (Intel 40GB-V) and it work amazingly. Load times are only a few seconds...even with Rise of Flight new career mode - loads within 10 seconds or less. $120 is what I spent and it's sooo worth it. I could never go back to slow loading times. Since I only use the SSD for flight sims - it should last several years. i7-12700k, 32GB Ram, RTX 3060 12GB, TrackIR 5, Lots of SSD Space, etc etc DCS World - All the cool modules
MackTheKnight Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Agree'd with all the above folks. Not much point in spending good money on an SSD, if you're not going to take full advantage of it! :)
bluepilot76 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Can you use an SSD connected with a USB3? so I can use it on my laptop? They sound like they are really good. Disc access is by far the lowest score on my windows experience thing, it would help with that wouldnt it? As for overwriting it, I bet they are like memory sticks and flat screen tvs. Really expensive for a couple of years, and cheap as chips (HAHA) thereafter. Technical Specs: Asus G73JW gaming laptop... i7-740QM 1.73GHz ... GTX460m 1.5GB ... 8GB DDR5 RAM ... Win7 64 ... TIR5 ... Thrustmaster T16000m
MackTheKnight Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 If I were you, I'd put the SSD in the laptop and use the original mechanical laptop hard drive in an external USB 3 enclosure. Putting an SSD on a USB bus is kinda hamstringing it, I think. USB3 is fast but I think the SATA2/3 bus would be faster. Some testing would have to confirm this, though. If you must use an SSD externally, I'd be looking into E-SATA, assuming your laptop has the port.
aceflier Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) What is this Win 7 tweak pls. My concern is filling up the disk with tracks and missions. I only could afford a 64GB one. On it I have A10-C Black Shark and ROF;) All the credit goes to Lighningltd over at winseven forums for this tweak. He has a bunch of em but I only do a few. Here is how to move temp folders in win7. http://ask-leo.com/how_do_i_change_the_location_of_windows_temporary_files.html Use this tweak to make win7 think your saved games folder is on C:.... Moving parts of Windows 7 to another drive... It has been asked what other little things can be done to squeeze a litle more performance from Windows 7 on our SSD drives... One thing that helps maintain performance on an SSD is the percentage of free space available to the SSD controller to execute 'wear leveling'. Basically, spreading out the load to the least used empty memory cells. In order to do this, we need to fool Windows and other programs into looking elsewhere for stuff that is necessary, but rarely used and taking up a lot of disk space. This part is only useful IF you have your operating system on your SSD AND it is formatted as NTFS and have a second drive available (NTFS) with space free to use. What we are going to do is move certain directories to the other drive, then make Windows (and the programs) think it is still on the boot drive. We do this by using an NTFS 'junction'. Think of a junction as a pointer to a location. To the operating system, the files look like they are in location A, but they are really physically in location B. For the tutorial, we are going to assume that the SSD is C: and the second drive is E:. Substitute your drive letters as needed. As always, MAKE A BACKUP FIRST! If you are still with me, here is how to do it (the easy way): Go to Link Shell Extension and download (and INSTALL) the link shell extension software (and VC runtime, follow the instructions on the site) for your flavor of Windows 7 (or barf Vista ). Make sure explorer is set to SHOW hidden and system files (Tools/Folder Options/View tab, Show hidden, uncheck Hide protected operating system and hide extensions) Create the following directories: E:\WinSystem E:\WinSystem\Windows Boot into safe mode. Open explorer and navigate to C:\Windows. Right click on the Installer directory and select CUT Navigate to E:\WinSystem\Windows right click and select paste. It should have created the directory E:\WinSystem\Windows\Installer with files in it. Right click the directory E:\WinSystem\Windows\Installer and select Pick Link Source. Navigate to C:\Windows and right click in the directory and select Drop As and select Junction. You should now see C:\Windows\Installer is back (with a wierd link on the folder icon)... The OS now will put installer files on the other drive and look for them there, but think it is still on c:! Other directories I do this with are the HP install directory (C:\SwSetup) and MS Office setup directory (C:\MSOCache). In the previous tutorials, yo learned how to move the TEMP and internet Temporary files... This is a good place for them too. Here is the directory structure on my E:\WinSystem directory: E:\WinSystem\MSOCache E:\WinSystem\SwSetup E:\WinSystem\Temp E:\WinSystem\Temporary Internet Files E:\WinSystem\Windows\Installer Just make sure to drop the junction in the same place as the original directory and the OS will be none the wiser and you will have moved GIGABYTES of seldom used stuff of your SSD (and redirected some more writes)! The only down side that I have found is as follows: If your backup strategy is like mine WAS, then you would only be making a backup image of the SSD. The problem is, that image backup software does not see that you moved the files, so they cannot copy the files in the E:\WinSystem directory with the image. The fix is quite simple if U are using Windows 7 backup: Along with the system image, have it back up the directory E:\WinSystem. Then it will keep them together and in sync (you restore the image AND the directory that went with the image). Undoing the junction is easy too, if you want to. Simply delete the junction from the C drive and move the directory back where it was (hence the reasoning I had you create WinSystem\Windows\Installer instead of WinSystem\Installer as a reminder of where the directory was when U started (thinking of WinSystem as the root)! Disclamer: Dont blame me if you bork your win7 install. Make a backup before and after you do this. If you follow the directions to the T this works perfectly I've used this same tweak to move My pictures/My documents/Downloads/Temporary Internet and many other directories off the C: Drive. If you've done all of this and made a backup you next windows installation will be a breeze. Ive got my Steam games and Everything backup up so when I do reinstall later its a snap and already updated. (Backup Often) Uploaded this Pic of how it looks on my D drive. Edited June 17, 2011 by aceflier 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Depth Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Putting an SSD on a USB bus is kinda hamstringing it, I think. USB3 is fast but I think the SATA2/3 bus would be faster. Some testing would have to confirm this, though. In terms of pure data transfer USB2.0 < SATA2 < USB3.0 < SATA3 Wether you want your SSD inside or outside your computer is up to you but please, please put your OS on it, you won't regret it :thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
bluepilot76 Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Mack and Depth, Thats great info, it hadnt occurred to me that I could actually get it implanted into the Hardware, but now you mention it I dont see why not eh? Then again if my laptop doesnt have the SATA3 connectors within (I dont know ATM) then it sounds like USB3 might be good enough to be worthwhile. I see some research followed by expenditure in my immediate future! Thanks again Technical Specs: Asus G73JW gaming laptop... i7-740QM 1.73GHz ... GTX460m 1.5GB ... 8GB DDR5 RAM ... Win7 64 ... TIR5 ... Thrustmaster T16000m
Gadroc Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 In terms of pure data transfer USB2.0 < SATA2 < USB3.0 < SATA3 Wether you want your SSD inside or outside your computer is up to you but please, please put your OS on it, you won't regret it :thumbup: USB and SATA are very different beasts, and I'm not sure using USB3 as your primary drive is realistic yet. Speed is not just determined by the theoretical bandwidth limit, just like you can't tell real CPU performance just by clock speed (remember how fast those 3Ghz Pentium 4s are compared to current i7). I sure as hell wouldn't spend the kind of money you do on a SSD and drop it on USB, especially if that USB controller has anything else hung off it. Here are some benchmarks I could find comparing USB3 to SATA. Notice the only one where USB3 is better requires a "USB3 Turbo Mode" which I have no clue what it is. http://www.sansdigital.com/performance-comparison/eliteraid-usb3-performance-feature.html http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/05/esata-is-faster-than-usb-3-0-at-least-right-now/ 1
Depth Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 USB and SATA are very different beasts, and I'm not sure using USB3 as your primary drive is realistic yet. Speed is not just determined by the theoretical bandwidth limit, just like you can't tell real CPU performance just by clock speed (remember how fast those 3Ghz Pentium 4s are compared to current i7). I sure as hell wouldn't spend the kind of money you do on a SSD and drop it on USB, especially if that USB controller has anything else hung off it. Here are some benchmarks I could find comparing USB3 to SATA. Notice the only one where USB3 is better requires a "USB3 Turbo Mode" which I have no clue what it is. http://www.sansdigital.com/performance-comparison/eliteraid-usb3-performance-feature.html http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/05/esata-is-faster-than-usb-3-0-at-least-right-now/ Those are comparisons of eSATA to USB3, not SATA to USB3. I'll reformulate External USB2.0 < Internal SATA2 < External USB3.0 < External eSATA < Internal SATA3 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Gadroc Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 You still miss the point... First eSATA has variants just like regular sata (3Gb/s version and 6Gb/s version). I'll not include those as they are essentially identical for our purposes to regular SATA, they only add additional requirements for shielding, cable length and connectors. Theoretical Performance is what you are listing and it actual goes in this order. USB (12Mb/s) < Firewire 400 (400Mb/s) < USB 2.0 (480Mb/s) < Firewire 800 (800Mb/s) < SATA 1.0 (1.5Gb/s) < SATA 2.0 (3Gb/s) < USB 3.0 (5Gbs) < SATA 3.0 (6.0Gb/s) < Thunderbolt (10Gb/s) The key word being theoretical in that metric. That does not take into account protocol overhead, duplex (being able to send and receive at the same time) and other things like bus topology. You'll notice that no USB 2.0 storage system ever got close to 480Mb/s throughput. It is just plain silly to buy an SSD drive and put it on a USB 2.0 bus, as mechanical hard drives are bottlenecked by that spec. USB 3.0 has yet to be proven in this area, and I highly doubt it will ever replace a dedicated storage bus like SATA for primary OS drives. I'll restate again in my opinion anyone buying an SSD would be wasting their money putting it on an USB bus. It's highly unlikely that you'll find a machine that comes with USB 3.0 that doesn't come with SATA 3.0 as well.
MackTheKnight Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Good points Gadroc, and I couldn't agree more.
celticcoho Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Good points Gadroc, and I couldn't agree more. I agree also...I have 2 ssd's, none to usb...:thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Celticcoho (OriginFreedom) WIN 7 64 bit, I7975 at 3.6ghz,X58 Classified 3 Mobo, 6gb Corsair 2000 ram, 2 ea ATI 5870 Eyefinity 6 2gb's , 27" Ultra Sharp,(main view), 3 23"touch screens , Tm Warthog, Saitek Combat Pedals Track IR 5,:D JIM.:book:
aceflier Posted June 17, 2011 Author Posted June 17, 2011 This got off on a tangent didnt it lol. Are these tweaks worth the time for any of you? I think they are. They cleaned about 5gb+ off my SSD and this is on a new windows install and update to sp1 with only a10 installed with all my essential programs to run a10. Although I think 3gb or so was flippin system restore points and hard drive address space for restore points. Disable system restore for sure it will clean GB's off your SSD.(Make a backup first) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) SDD longevity should be higher than a HDD even with many writes. Some publications say about 3X more. Running out of lifetime in an SDD is overrated IMHO, by that time most users had already upgraded several times. The worst part is write performance degradation but still way faster than any HDD. Edited June 17, 2011 by Pilotasso .
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