Falcon 4AF HARM targeting procedure

[jazjar]

Is the procedure for targeting the AGM-88 HARM in Falcon 4AF (vanilla) completely realistic? It seems like there is something missing from the procedure because it is just so-simplistic. Is there an add-on or realism mod for F4AF or is the HARM targeting procedure same as in RL? Just asking.

[theOden]

In AF it's very simplied, try FreeFalcon for a more correct simulation.

I still find the AF procedure to be good enough in the air-war simulation that Falcon is. If you're more into flight-sim try FreeFalcon or openFalcon.

[jazjar]

I checked out open falcon and it looks very interesting. The only problem is that it requires the original falcon to work. Does the original falcon work with win 7?

[-Pilgrim-]

OF + AMD does not work with Win 7. nvidia seems to be OK.

[mvsgas]

I checked out open falcon and it looks very interesting. The only problem is that it requires the original falcon to work. Does the original falcon work with win 7?

 

Try freefalcon, does not need original Falcon and is...well free, nothing to loose.

[SUBS17]

Is the procedure for targeting the AGM-88 HARM in Falcon 4AF (vanilla) completely realistic? It seems like there is something missing from the procedure because it is just so-simplistic. Is there an add-on or realism mod for F4AF or is the HARM targeting procedure same as in RL? Just asking.

 

The missing part is the mode for the Harm POS and DL, also the display also missing is flight profiles EOM and RUK mode. F4AF does feature a PB mode by displaying known SAM sites in the HAS. HAS is the method most used in F4AF. OF features a slightly different setup with the RWR/HAS display in a 2nd page on the MFD. OF probably has the ability if it were further moded to have the DL mode as the IDM(IMO can already do that though by transmitting Markpoint or cursor position) is well modeled in it. The other thing missing is the DED stuff for the HARM with HARM threat tables etc. Essentially employment is very similar though to the real aircraft eventhough these extra features are missing. The procedure is set RWR to low level threat and search radar mode. Check HARM display for active radar and search radars, lock(TMS up) and fire.

Edited July 4, 2011 by SUBS17
Mispelt words

[SUBS17]

In AF it's very simplied, try FreeFalcon for a more correct simulation.

I still find the AF procedure to be good enough in the air-war simulation that Falcon is. If you're more into flight-sim try FreeFalcon or openFalcon.

 

I'm curious what does FF that makes it more detailed?

[theOden]

I'm curious what does FF that makes it more detailed?

Long time I flew FF as all the CTD's finally depleted my interest but I'd say at least half of that abbrevation rush in your previous post :)

 

Alas, one does not need too many features to be more detailed than AF HAD display?

 

I do note a small OF/FF fight in your question directly after your first post but I will disregard that.

[sobek]

Hey Oden, didn't know you roamed around in these parts!

[theOden]

Hi sobek, long time no see!

 

Naa, mostly lurking whenever I make another attempt to get into FC2 but after IL2:cod went emotionally empty on me and FF kept on CTD even on my new win7 I hope I'll spend more time here with FC2 now.

 

Tried <51> server yesterday in my old trusty Su-25A but it was way too difficult for me, indeed isuc at this :D - very nice mission setup though so I'll try'n'return there when I get less useless at this haha.

 

Do you fly anything with Stef nowadays?

 

jazjar, sorry for getting all offtopic here - Sobek, shoot me a PM so we don't hijack this thread more than we've already done. :shame-on-us:

[jazjar]

I heard that Free Falcon was the simplified version, Allied Force was the most stable, and that Open Falcon was the most realistic. Hmm... requires an NVIDIA, so I cannot get the original Falcon 4.0.:(

P.S, SUBS17, explain your acronyms!

[sobek]

I heard that Free Falcon was the simplified version

 

That is hogwash. FreeFalcon is more advanced than AF apart from stability and the feature to add flights on the 2d map.

[mvsgas]

I heard that Free Falcon was the simplified version, Allied Force was the most stable, and that Open Falcon was the most realistic. Hmm... requires an NVIDIA, so I cannot get the original Falcon 4.0.:(

P.S, SUBS17, explain your acronyms!

 

It depends who you talk to. I can't Play OF anymore, I prefer the way that version was set up. FF has some good features, but I can't play it without a crash. The weird thing about FF is that they want to say it's realistic/accurate or that its a game designed for fun when is convenient. AF is so terrible in graphics, avionics, etc, I stop playing it. I never try AF in Win 7

[hassata]

AF is the most stable for network play.

[SUBS17]

I use AF as its stable MP is very good and I find SEAD to be just as good as the other 2. Of is great but we ran into MP stability problems.

[SUBS17]

I heard that Free Falcon was the simplified version, Allied Force was the most stable, and that Open Falcon was the most realistic. Hmm... requires an NVIDIA, so I cannot get the original Falcon 4.0.:(

P.S, SUBS17, explain your acronyms!

 

MLU Tape 2 HARM use. :D

 

Ok in my next post if you like.:thumbup:

[SUBS17]

I heard that Free Falcon was the simplified version, Allied Force was the most stable, and that Open Falcon was the most realistic. Hmm... requires an NVIDIA, so I cannot get the original Falcon 4.0.:(

P.S, SUBS17, explain your acronyms!

 

Ok heres what they are:

HARM POS = Position Known

DL= Data link

EOM= Equations of Motion

RUK= Range Unknown

PB= Pre Briefed

HAS= Harm As Sensor

RWR= Radar Warning Reciever

MFD= Multi Function Display

OF= Open Falcon

IDM= Improved Data Modem

DED= Data Entry Display

HARM= High speed AntiRadiation Missile

TMS= Target Management Switch

HSD=Horizontal Situation Display

 

Harm modes are:

POS

HAS

DL

 

POS the following flight profiles:

1) Equations of Motion (EOM): Provides threat specific off-axis capability

with a narrow FOV when the seekerhead is activated.

 

2) Range Unknown (RUK): Provides threat specific off-axis capability with a

wide FOV. Used when target range confidence is low. (Degraded state of

EOM).(What SU25T uses in FC2)

 

3) Pre-Briefed (PB): Provides location specific, on-axis capability with a

wide FOV. PB is used for long range delivery with high confidence target

location(What F4AF,OF,FF uses when radar is off but tgt is on the HSD)

 

HAS is what F4AF, OF and FF uses all the time where the Harm missile is used to detect the tgt. DL is the datalink mode ref my earlier post although it works by recieveing a SEAD message or CAS mission update and the TGT appears on the HSD. So a work around is as what I described just Markpoint/cursor pos message to aircraft or flight for SEAD tgt. TMS is the HAT on the HOTAS which is modeled in both OF and F4AF you have TMS up,down,left,right which manage TGT lock, unlock, radar modes/submodes and datalink to aircraft in flight.(OF only for DL, F4AF will show A/A tgts locked but not ground tgts).

[theOden]

SUBS17, you're the first one I've heard of having problems with OF in MP - odd how different these old flavours behave for us all.

 

When I very shortly tried OF in MP it ran very smooth (old XP machine though), tried FF numerous times in Vista 64 and now lately win7 and would sum it up to allow me to play the first half of each mission and after that there was bound to be a CTD somewhere :) life's a b haha.

 

Only F4 I ever use today on my win7 is the trusty AF and as a simmer one should be able to see past the graphics, but it does hurt the eyes at times :P (as MVSGas neatly describes)

 

Looking forward to your acronym post, feels like Frugals - I do recognize your name from that old place right (I wasn't very active so you shouldnt really know my name)?

 

Edit: time-ninjad by himself ! :)

[sobek]

Only F4 I ever use today on my win7 is the trusty AF and as a simmer one should be able to see past the graphics, but it does hurt the eyes at times :P (as MVSGas neatly describes)

 

Well, it's not just the graphics, i simply refuse to play any sim without a clickable 3dpit, simply because it's such a huge step backwards in immersion. The graphics i can live with. Going back to 2d pits without headtracking, not for the life of me.

[RvEYoda]

Well, it's not just the graphics, i simply refuse to play any sim without a clickable 3dpit, simply because it's such a huge step backwards in immersion. The graphics i can live with. Going back to 2d pits without headtracking, not for the life of me.

 

Some of us have set it up so that we actually move the head in 3d and then we just release/press a button to have it automatically switch to 2d (pointing at the same instruments/direction you were looking at in 3d).

Game wise this allows you to click the pit like you would in a clickable 3d pit, but of course

it is not really a 3d pit graphics wise :).

 

We never use other methods than trackir to look around.

[sobek]

We never use other methods than trackir to look around.

 

Still kinda PITA in my book so that's not for me. E.g., you always have to switch back and forth to see what position switches are in, etc.

 

 

But if it works for you... ;)

[jazjar]

SUBS17, thanks for explaining, another question, is there a downloadable manual anywhere on the internet that has specific information about the HARM in OF? ( OF related, not RL). If so, tell me where. Thanks

[SUBS17]

Go to your OF Folder in the docs folder click on the Dash34 and it should pretty much cover most of the questions you may have.

[SUBS17]

SUBS17, you're the first one I've heard of having problems with OF in MP - odd how different these old flavours behave for us all.

 

When I very shortly tried OF in MP it ran very smooth (old XP machine though), tried FF numerous times in Vista 64 and now lately win7 and would sum it up to allow me to play the first half of each mission and after that there was bound to be a CTD somewhere :) life's a b haha.

 

Only F4 I ever use today on my win7 is the trusty AF and as a simmer one should be able to see past the graphics, but it does hurt the eyes at times :P (as MVSGas neatly describes)

 

Looking forward to your acronym post, feels like Frugals - I do recognize your name from that old place right (I wasn't very active so you shouldnt really know my name)?

 

Edit: time-ninjad by himself ! :)

 

Yes I was a regular on Frugals back when it was online. We did have some good missions back with OF particularly with the IVC it adds alot to the sim but after an update I suspect for win XP I ran into problems with Rapace launcher and it killed it for my Squadron so we binned it. The F-16s an awesome jet I hope one day they make a DCS addon F-16.

[jazjar]

Sorry SUBS17, I wasn't very specific with my post, I should have stated that I didn't even have the original Falcon 4.0 before I asked that question... Anyways, is there anything on the internet?