Trimming the Black Shark ?

[ErichVon]

I see the keyboard key, letter "T" trims the helicopter in some way, named, "Trimmers" .

 

Is it possible to setup my CH Products, "Fighterstick" as to the HAT button to setup trim like I do with the A-10C Warthog as a 4-position HAT, left, right, up, down trim ?

 

Thanks for any help or critique.

:pilotfly:

Edited July 29, 2011 by ErichVon

[EtherealN]

No.

 

Helicopters are trimmed in a different way than what you are used to. You trim for the input you want - so if you need 10 degrees forward and 5 degrees left input on stick to keep stable, you press trim and this becomes the new centrepont.

 

the Ka-50 also has a number of stabilisation modes, so you should do this after every change in attitude and every turn - this will give the AP new data on what it's sipposed to hold.

 

but basically - forget EVERYTHING from trimming fixed-wing. It does not apply.

[PeterP]

[ErichVon]

I see the keyboard key, letter "T" trims the helicopter in some way, named, "Trimmers" .

 

Is it possible to setup my CH Products, "Fighterstick" as to the HAT button to setup trim like I do with the A-10C Warthog as a 4-position HAT, left, right, up, down trim ?

 

Thanks for any help or critique.

:pilotfly:

 

I received the spiral bound manual today.

 

I will do the game tutorials and go from there how to map my gear.

 

I figure to learn in Game mode 1st, then somewhat relearn in Realistic mode later.

 

I took out an in flight, Game mode mission and managed to kill a mess of moving gvs and anti-aircraft units from a distance in hover, while I had wingman kill the area bandits.

 

Man, some difference from the DCS Warthog, but fun I bet.

 

My Betty is an Izzy and speaking Russian, but I will do the suggested mod to get my English speaking lady friend.

 

Thanks.

:pilotfly:

Edited July 29, 2011 by ErichVon

[umkhunto]

I would say avoid game mode, especially game flight model. The quicker you practice with the real FM, the quicker it will become second nature. Pretty soon you will be hitting the trimmer on your stick while flying the A-10C, the 747 in FSX and frustratingly try looking for it in your car, when making a turn. :P

[ErichVon]

I would say avoid game mode, especially game flight model. The quicker you practice with the real FM, the quicker it will become second nature. Pretty soon you will be hitting the trimmer on your stick while flying the A-10C, the 747 in FSX and frustratingly try looking for it in your car, when making a turn. :P

 

Hi,

 

I agree.

 

My Warthog CH Control Manager .map profile I got as a freebie from KonKuSSion. He was most gracious to lend me the results of his hard efforts, back about March this year. But, his profile, is full sim and no game shortcuts at all. I learned Warthog the hard way. I am still learning and will be doing so for some time to come. So, when out looking for targets, it is pretty much realistic and no use of the GUI manual's target shortcuts. I kind of miss that.

 

Eventually, with Black Shark that is my goal, but the GUI shortcuts are nice to play with in the beginning and less intense, starting at page 30.

 

I play 3 sims currently online. My biggest fear at age 59 is work overload, memorizing each planes different set of instructions. But I am finding it is not as much a brick wall as I had anticipated. Each .map profile is different using my CH Products trilogy. But it is just repetition. I fly a Warthog mission sortie daily. Aces High and Warthog, I map my trim buttons the same using the Fighterstick's HAT.

 

I play Aces High out of Texas about 4 years; DCS: Warthog since February; and now DCS: Black Shark. I still wish to learn some aircraft in Flaming Cliffs. I am actually working backwards as most you guys came up using Lock On and the betas. I have not.

 

I am so deaf, driving car, I once turned the radio volume control to turn up my wife's voice volume, not thinking, just did it. That got a good laugh. The radio was off. Where did that action come from?

 

Thanks for the advice.

Edited July 30, 2011 by ErichVon

[ErichVon]

 

Thanks for the film.

[ErichVon]

No.

 

Helicopters are trimmed in a different way than what you are used to. You trim for the input you want - so if you need 10 degrees forward and 5 degrees left input on stick to keep stable, you press trim and this becomes the new centrepont.

 

the Ka-50 also has a number of stabilisation modes, so you should do this after every change in attitude and every turn - this will give the AP new data on what it's sipposed to hold.

 

but basically - forget EVERYTHING from trimming fixed-wing. It does not apply.

 

Always a joy, learning from you.

 

Thank you.

:pilotfly:

[ZoomBoy27]

Here's my 2 bits - a Trimming Tutorial

[PeterP]

And when you are much more further in your training - here is my advise to get rid of the rudder trim:

How to unchain the rudder from trim - solution

[ErichVon]

Special Hardware Considerations for Controlling a Helicopter

 

 

Hi,

 

I need to create a working profile .map for my CH gear using the CH Control Manager. I have a couple guys have donated, what they use, but it suits them, but they do not hold true to what I have read, so far.

 

I was reading in the metal, spiral bound book today, Ka-50 Black Shark, published in 2009, the trim technique you describe is specific to the simulation, but not in real life, in the real aircraft. See page 13-10. If you have a Force Feedback joystick, supposedly one can mimic "the real aircraft, the cyclic remains in a trimmed position" .

 

My question to the book is, it was published in 2009, probably written ready for print out in 2008. Has the game changed much since the book was written? Yes, I know, the latest patch, in their online manual should reflect any new changes.

 

On page 13-11 it says,

 

"It is highly recommended that you use some sort of rudder input device for controlling the helicopter direction. Three possible ways include:

 

Rudder Pedals

 

or

 

A twisty grip joystick (in so many words)

 

or

 

Assigning the X-axis of a throttle mini-stick as the rudder control " (end of quoted book material) .

 

I want to create a .map profile to mimic closely my Warthog setup but stay true to the helicopter sim.

 

I am just absorbing information and currently experimenting.

 

Thanks to all for critiquing me and offering advice.

 

Thank you for your training video. BTW, I went to YouTube to find the rest of the series.

 

:pilotfly:

[Bushmanni]

Ministick is essential for controlling Shkval. If you don't have rudder pedals I'd suggest you buy them instead of using ministick as a replacement. The Shkval is very sensitive and CH ministick quite fiddly so it will require some custom mapping in BS axis setup to get it working satisfactorily. Another good technique is to operate the ministick with both thumb and index finger instead of just thumb so you can make lot more precise movements. As the ministick won't center properly you might also need a CM script that centers the ministcik when pressing lock button. The Shkval won't lock unless the slew controller is centered for more than 100ms before and after release.

 

This is my Shkval slew user axis profile for both axes:

5 6 8 10 13 18 24 34 49 74 100

 

The reason I started with 5 is that it removes the built in deadzone that Shkval has. It makes the Shkval control very precise but probably requires some practice in using it. If the center position is too sensitive you could make the curve to start from zero in order to have some deadzone or make it even more shallow near the center.

 

Here's also my CH profile which contains some useful scripts that make the BS controls more like A-10. In addition of the Ministick freeze with lock button it has a filter script to remove jitter from zoom slider, script to combine gun and weapons trigger to one button and script to combine Shkval narrow and wide fov buttons in to one toggle button.

Ka-50 map.zip

[ErichVon]

Ministick is essential for controlling Shkval. If you don't have rudder pedals I'd suggest you buy them instead of using ministick as a replacement. The Shkval is very sensitive and CH ministick quite fiddly so it will require some custom mapping in BS axis setup to get it working satisfactorily. Another good technique is to operate the ministick with both thumb and index finger instead of just thumb so you can make lot more precise movements. As the ministick won't center properly you might also need a CM script that centers the ministcik when pressing lock button. The Shkval won't lock unless the slew controller is centered for more than 100ms before and after release.

 

This is my Shkval slew user axis profile for both axes:

5 6 8 10 13 18 24 34 49 74 100

 

The reason I started with 5 is that it removes the built in deadzone that Shkval has. It makes the Shkval control very precise but probably requires some practice in using it. If the center position is too sensitive you could make the curve to start from zero in order to have some deadzone or make it even more shallow near the center.

 

Here's also my CH profile which contains some useful scripts that make the BS controls more like A-10. In addition of the Ministick freeze with lock button it has a filter script to remove jitter from zoom slider, script to combine gun and weapons trigger to one button and script to combine Shkval narrow and wide fov buttons in to one toggle button.

 

Hi,

 

I have CH Products: Fighterstick; Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals.

 

Know of a CH Products Profile I could use? I have Capt_Crunch's I got off of CH Hangar. If I use it I will modify it. I modified the profile Kon gave me for Warthog.

 

I figure I will tough it out and create my own. I had to create one for Aces High now that I have CH Control Manager setup for Warthog. All the CH profiles were too dated to be practical to use at Aces High, their latest upgrades.

 

I will experiment with your idea.

 

<edit> Crap! your profile is right there. I am brain dead this morning.

 

Thanks

:pilotfly:

Edited July 31, 2011 by ErichVon
need more coffee!

[EtherealN]

that video wasn't made by PeterP, it was made by Matt "Wags" Wagner, TFC/ED Producer. ;)

There's a lot more where that came from on Matt's channel on youtube, as well as in downloadable format through the digitalcombatsimulator.com website.

 

The manual corresponds to the current version.

[ErichVon]

that video wasn't made by PeterP, it was made by Matt "Wags" Wagner, TFC/ED Producer. ;)

There's a lot more where that came from on Matt's channel on youtube, as well as in downloadable format through the digitalcombatsimulator.com website.

 

The manual corresponds to the current version.

 

Hi,

 

Somebody else wrongly tagged it. Thanks for the info and links. And thanks for letting me know the manual is OK. That manual I got from Amazon by way of somewhere out in Missouri, USA. Can't wait for the one you guys will create for Warthog. Nice job!

[EtherealN]

No, they just linked it. ;)

 

Regarding manuals, aside from any typos and such mistakes that might creep in, the Flight Manuals should be generally applicable to any version of the simulators since they describe flight and operation. Most changes and additions to the simulators will be based on the real thing, so manual contents should usually not become out of date. (However, if new systems are added that were not modeled before, the paper manuals might be considered to have become incomplete. There might also be cases where default keys get changed, as well.)

[Dejjvid]

Whenever i move the stick or the rudder i press AND HOLD the trim button. When im done, changing attitude, bank or just a turn. I release the trim button and the shark takes control again. Works like a charm.

 

On my TMWH i use the pinky switch (the big lever) as trim, so it takes no effort at all to hold down the trim when i hold (sic!) the stick.

[ErichVon]

Hi,

 

Well I am up and flying from a cold, ramp start and taxi to the runway. Definitely I need fine tuning. I have a couple different profiles I modified, others gave me. Plus will try to create one or two of my own. Was going to do the Game sim, 1st, but opted for the Real simulation as a start. I practice with the "Death Valley" mission, off line, in Single Player.

 

Oh, this Black Shark is much better and more realistic than the 1980's Microprose Gunship title for the Apache, Viet Nam era, helicopter; and that was pretty good.