Auto Lase and Laser Latch on\off

[Dejjvid]

They should not have anything in common at all.

 

BUT

 

A few days ago, a fellow simmer and i tried buddy lasing, and i've done it like a hundred times in the past. But that day, it never hit the target when i lased for him, only when he lased for me.

 

I always use the latch method. The only explanation i can come up with is that i was too far away, or perhaps there is a bug with latch mode. The "L" is flashing, but the laser is not firing.

 

If you watch the IR pointer on a night mission you see that it stops mid air if you are far away from the target. Perhaps the laser is limited in range too.

[Speed]

In what situations would you manually lase a bomb to the target? It seems the auto lase option would the preferred one in every case? The only times I manually lase a target is at night in conjunction with the IR pointer and NVGs to make sure I'm looking at the right target. Are there other situations?

Here's a little illustration why auto-lasing when you're trying to hit a moving target from high altitude is a bad idea.

 

Edited January 16, 2013 by Speed

[Teiwaz]

They should not have anything in common at all.

 

BUT

 

A few days ago, a fellow simmer and i tried buddy lasing, and i've done it like a hundred times in the past. But that day, it never hit the target when i lased for him, only when he lased for me.

 

I always use the latch method. The only explanation i can come up with is that i was too far away, or perhaps there is a bug with latch mode. The "L" is flashing, but the laser is not firing.

 

If you watch the IR pointer on a night mission you see that it stops mid air if you are far away from the target. Perhaps the laser is limited in range too.

 

As the other 2 runs went smoothly I don't think my issue's range related, but thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

[FreeFall]

Perhaps the laser is limited in range too.

 

I remember that one forum member tested the lasing distances in the similar situation as in the video I linked earlier in this thread. I think that max. distance was about 8 nm. Might depend on weather conditions as well?

[Teiwaz]

After some additional testing I think I figured it out:

Auto Lase seems to lase at your SPI, Latch lases wherever your TGP points at.

 

So when you have a SPI set (probably some mark point you set before) and you move your TGP to far away, you won't be able to pickle (CCRP error). If your new TGP point is within CCRP parameters your GBU will hit that new point IF you lase manually (given enough time to adjust) - that's why my second run was a success.

 

Bottom point: better always set your SPI ;)

 

Might be different with area mode though and I also might be completely wrong on this issue :)

[Eddie]

??

 

The ONLY difference between auto lase, and manual lase (latched or not, it doesn't matter) is whether or not you have to fire the laser using the stick pinky switch. That's it, nothing more.

 

The only difference between latch on and off is that with latch off you have to press and HOLD the pinky switch to fire the laser, whereas with latch enabled one press fires the laser the second stops it.

[Eddie]

Here's a little illustration why auto-lasing when you're trying to hit a moving target from high altitude is a bad idea.

 

 

Auto lase or manual, it doesn't make even a tiny jot of difference. ALL that matters is the time before impact from which you activate the laser.

[Teiwaz]

??

 

The ONLY difference between auto lase, and manual lase (latched or not, it doesn't matter) is whether or not you have to fire the laser using the stick pinky switch. That's it, nothing more.

 

The only difference between latch on and off is that with latch off you have to press and HOLD the pinky switch to fire the laser, whereas with latch enabled one press fires the laser the second stops it.

 

That's what I expected. Not saying you're wrong, because you clearly arent on what you're saying, but [edit] I'm pretty sure [/edit] there's another difference (intentionally or not) - try and you'll see. Without setting your SPI, Auto Lase & manual lasing your GBU will hit your mark point ("last known SPI") and not the point your TGP is pointing at. Just thinking nobody before tried it that way, because it's pretty stupid and useless actually :)

 

That's under the asumption I didn't do anything wrong and afaik I didn't.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Teiwaz

[Speed]

Auto lase or manual, it doesn't make even a tiny jot of difference. ALL that matters is the time before impact from which you activate the laser.

 

Agreed. However, during actual gameplay use, manually lasing (especially when manual lasing is defined as manually turning the laser on from the moment the bomb is released) will generally mean that the laser is turned on long before auto-lase would have turned it on.

[Speed]

That's what I expected. Not saying you're wrong, because you clearly arent on what you're saying, but [edit] I'm pretty sure [/edit] there's another difference (intentionally or not) - try and you'll see. Without setting your SPI, Auto Lase & manual lasing your GBU will hit your mark point ("last known SPI") and not the point your TGP is pointing at. Just thinking nobody before tried it that way, because it's pretty stupid and useless actually :)

 

That's under the asumption I didn't do anything wrong and afaik I didn't.

 

No, you're incorrect. When you drop a GBU-12, in the absence of laser guiding, it will impact near the SPI you had at the moment you dropped.

 

The reason your GBU hit your SPI and not your laser was because your SPI was so far away from the point that your TGP was looking at that the bomb never saw the laser- the laser spot never passed within the FOV of the bomb. So the bomb just flew ballistically and hit near your SPI.

 

If you were able to hit under the same situation using manual lasing, it would be because you activated your laser manually long before auto-lase would have. The bomb was far enough away at the time manual lasing began that the laser spot was still in its field of view. It's the same reason that manually lasing from the moment the bomb is released is generally superior to auto-lasing against moving targets.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Speed

[Eddie]

Agreed. However, during actual gameplay use, manually lasing (especially when manual lasing is defined as manually turning the laser on from the moment the bomb is released) will generally mean that the laser is turned on long before auto-lase would have turned it on.

 

Since when is that the definition of manual lasing though? That wild be continuous lasing, which is a valid tactic, in the right situation.

 

Personally I never use auto lase, and have no issues whatsoever employing Paveway against any target type.

[Teiwaz]

No, you're incorrect. When you drop a GBU-12, in the absence of laser guiding, it will impact near the SPI you had at the moment you dropped.

 

The reason your GBU hit your SPI and not your laser was because your SPI was so far away from the point that your TGP was looking at that the bomb never saw the laser- the laser spot never passed within the FOV of the bomb. So the bomb just flew ballistically and hit near your SPI.

 

If you were able to hit under the same situation using manual lasing, it would be because you activated your laser manually long before auto-lase would have. The bomb was far enough away at the time manual lasing began that the laser spot was still in its field of view. It's the same reason that manually lasing from the moment the bomb is released is generally superior to auto-lasing against moving targets.

 

Sorry, but this is still no explanation why for the same bomb run Auto Lase AND manual lasing result in a different outcome than using Auto Lase OR manual lasing only.

[PhoenixBvo]

Sorry, but this is still no explanation why for the same bomb run Auto Lase AND manual lasing result in a different outcome than using Auto Lase OR manual lasing only.

After some additional testing I think I figured it out:

Auto Lase seems to lase at your SPI, Latch lases wherever your TGP points at.

 

Either the laser is firing or it is not. It is that simple. And it always fires at the TGP crosshairs, because it is part of the TGP pod which has one gimbaled optical port.

 

There is no such thing as "Auto Lase AND manual lasing". That is just an invalid operating procedure.

But check for the flashing L in the TGP screen and on the HUD to make sure whether the laser is firing or not. (also don't fly above 25,000 ft AGL when lasing. The laser doesn't have enough power to still be visible to the bomb in that case).

Edited January 17, 2013 by PhoenixBvo
additional quote for clarity

[Teiwaz]

Either the laser is firing or it is not. It is that simple. And it always fires at the TGP crosshairs, because it is part of the TGP pod.

 

There is no such thing as "Auto Lase AND manual lasing". That is just an invalid operating procedure.

But check for the flashing L in the TGP screen and on the HUD to make sure whether the laser is firing or not. (also don't fly above 25,000 ft AGL when lasing. The laser doesn't have enough power to still be visible to the bomb in that case).

 

It doesn't matter if it's proper procedure or not. If it is due to manual or automatic activation is (or should be) irrelevant. As you say, either the laser's flashing or not. And as I stated in my initial posting: the laser was definitely on and flight level was 10,000ft AGL. Again, I know how to drop GBU's to hit my target (auto or manual lasing), it's just that one "incorrect procedure" that seems to produce a not expected outcome even though it should work the same as manual lasing only and I'm just wondering why that would be. Maybe the distance mark point/SPI <-> TGP center was to high and I didn't notice - I will re-check that when I got home from work.

 

PS: Don't put to much effort into this, it's purely a "what if?" mind**** out of curiosity.

[Geskes]

It is very simple. When you dont set spi with the tgp the ccrp mode will calculate release on whatever the spi is. This could be miles out and as said the bomb will miss the laser spot. Setting your target as spi (with whatever sensor you want) is required for correct ccrp releases. It has nothing to do with manual or autolase. It is just that your are not releasing your bomb within required parameters to find the laser spot and hit the target.

[Teiwaz]

I stand corrected. The error was on my side, must have been further away from the SPI on my drop than I thought I was, which resulted in the GBU not picking up the laser. Tested it several times now minding the distance SPI <-> TGP and despite using Auto Lase and manually lasing the target during the whole run every GBU hit the lased target as I expected it to do from the start.

 

Thanks for all your input and happy busting! :)