Auto Lase and Laser Latch on\off

[Firstname_Lastname]

What is the relationship between auto lasing and using the NWS button to fire you laser?

 

If you Setup your GBU-12 to auto lase 12 seconds before impact, do you still have to active the laser using NWS (latch on or off) does that mean (with the latch on) the laser will fire 12 seconds before weapon impact. Or does the laser fire 12 second before impact without any Pilot intervention.

 

I am really confused, not to mention frustrated with Laser guided munitions (admittedly is more than likely user error). I did notice when using the weapons cam, the weapon only seems to nose over after a few seconds of flight (I have been told the seeker is on the nose). So do you have to lase once the weapon has pointed in the correct direction, ergo down.

[nomdeplume]

Auto-lase means never having to press the NWS button to lase the target. The laser will automatically engage (provided it's armed) at the appropriate time, and switch off a few seconds after the calculated impact time.

 

Latch is just to simplify the manual engagement of the laser, i.e. it turns it from "press and hold to lase" to "press it once to lase, press it again to stop".

 

There's a window of opportunity for lasing, but it's a fairly wide window. If you lase too early the bomb may start guiding right away, and since its guidance method isn't hugely efficient it may bleed off too much energy (speed) and therefore fall short of the target.

 

On the other hand if you wait way too long, it'll fly over the target and not be able to see the designation or guide to it.

 

If your bombs are falling short, then it's likely you're dropping the bomb too low. You want to be at least 15,000 feet up for LGB drops, especially if you're just starting.

 

If they're going long, then it's probably not picking up the laser reflection. Make sure the targeting pod isn't masked during guidance, as that will prevent the laser from emitting (this just means - make sure it has a clear view of the target and the 'M' isn't indicated at the bottom of the display). The 'L' indicator on the left side of the HUD and also on the TGP will blink while the laser is active.

[fragged]

Latch on/off and auto-lase have nothing to do with each other, they are two different modes of lasing. With auto-lase, you need to set auto lase on and lase time in the DSMS weapons profile for the weapon. When you drop a bomb with auto-lase the laser will activate at the set time before impact. Just make sure you selected the correct weapon profile as using DSMS to select the weapon by store will create a new blank profile.

 

With manual lasing you should lase 8-12 before impact by holding the NWS or using it as on/off button with latch on/off set to on in the TGP ctrl page.

 

EDIT: Slow :(

[Firstname_Lastname]

I see, that makes a lot of sense. I normally drop GBU-12's from 5000 - 7000 feet. And I hadn't realised the M on the TGP meant target is masked.

 

I can use most of the other munitions (apart from unguided munitions in CCIP) and the Laser guided Bombs are the last ones I want to master, before attempting the campaign.

 

(I have 30 hours+ flying time just practising weapons delivery, takeoff\landings and nothing else)

[Case]

In what situations would you manually lase a bomb to the target? It seems the auto lase option would the preferred one in every case? The only times I manually lase a target is at night in conjunction with the IR pointer and NVGs to make sure I'm looking at the right target. Are there other situations?

[Eddie]

Auto lase is exactly that, TGP latch settings are irrelevant. If you have auto lase enabled the laser will activate at the time to impact you set in the weapon profile. As to the time to impact you want to set, that all depends on the target. A moving target will need a longer lase time than a static one. Why not just lase from the moment the bomb comes of the rack you ask? Easy, because all the time the bomb is tracking the laser spot, it's manuveuring and bleeding energy. An excessive laser time, can result in the bomb falling short. And too short a lase time can lead to the bomb not detecting the laser and going long.

 

As to the weapon nosing down during flight, this is because LGBs are not released in the same way a MK-82 would be in CCRP for example. A dumb bomb is released so that it's ballistic trajectory leads it to hit (or land close to in reality) the point of aim.

 

LGBs however have 2 options for release that can be set via the weapon profile, one being BAL (ballistic) which works as above. The other, and default, method is ORP (optimal release). In ORP, the bomb will be released so that is would overshoot the target without laser guidence. This means the bomb will first start guiding from a higher altitude and will come in on the target at a steeper angle, and therefore have more energy to manuveur. Using ORP means you are less likely to find your bomb falling short of the target, but you may overshoot the target if you activate the laser too late.

[Noraf]

buddy lasing would be another situation, even to mark a target during daylight ops, the laser can be used, the other parti(es) just need to have the lss set to the same freq as you're lasing with to get the target. ( usefull if there are datalink trouble for one ;) )

 

Manual lasing can also be uisefull in tricky situations, were you need more controll over the bomb, or in rushed situations, were setting up a profile takes to long (though, thats best done during the preflight checks )

[Elwin]

In what situations would you manually lase a bomb to the target? It seems the auto lase option would the preferred one in every case? The only times I manually lase a target is at night in conjunction with the IR pointer and NVGs to make sure I'm looking at the right target. Are there other situations?

 

I only use manual lasing in case I forget to set-up the auto lase for GBU and it occurs to me only when I'm about to release the bomb or even after that :-)

[Firstname_Lastname]

Thank you everyone for your concise and useful replies. A have a lot to try when I get in tonight. Hopefully I'll be dropping laser guided bombs "like its cool". if I don't have any success I'll post a track, so you can make fun of my dodgy flying.

[Eddie]

Hopefully I'll be dropping laser guided bombs "like its cool".

 

LGBs will never be 'cool'. Real men use dumb weapons from 500ft. ;)

[Firstname_Lastname]

LGBs will never be 'cool'. Real men use dumb weapons from 500ft. ;)

 

According to some sources Real men use "harsh language".

[PhoenixBvo]

LGBs will never be 'cool'. Real men use dumb weapons from 500ft. ;)

 

With a couple of Zeuses and/or MANPADs around better exchange real for dumb/dead (pick whichever you like).;)

[Case]

LGBs will never be 'cool'. Real men use dumb weapons from 500ft. ;)

 

Ok, I'll go back to flying my Su-25A then :D

[112th_Rossi]

Question, can the TGP be used to detect a buddies laser and therefore find their target?

[Eddie]

Question, can the TGP be used to detect a buddies laser and therefore find their target?

 

Yep. That's what LSS is for.

[112th_Rossi]

Awesome sauce.

 

I'll try that tonight.

[Eddie]

With a couple of Zeuses and/or MANPADs around better exchange real for dumb/dead (pick whichever you like).;)

 

Pah. If you're only in their WEZ for a few seconds at most, they are nothing to worry about. How do you think it way done in the A-10A and numerous other aircraft for all those years. Mission planning, it's the way forwards ;)

[Lane]

Zeus have no missile if im right and don't make a misstake .. it's really easy to evade them, they can't see where you go and so do a curve with some direction change will loose them easely ... do a barrell with a little deprecation of altitude, you will see there bullet pass uppon you, under you.. never on you.

[Speed]

 

There's a window of opportunity for lasing, but it's a fairly wide window. If you lase too early the bomb may start guiding right away, and since its guidance method isn't hugely efficient it may bleed off too much energy (speed) and therefore fall short of the target.

 

 

Lasing too early is generally an over-blown, non-existent potential problem, at least with these bomb ballistics and this launching aircraft. The A-10 flies so damned slow that it may be impossible to lase too early, as the bomb will pretty much always be falling pretty much straight down or close enough by the time it noses over. In hundreds and hundreds of GBU-12 drops (as one of my favorite weapons, I've probably dropped at least 500 of them), I cannot recall a single time I saw a bomb miss because I lased the target too early, and I am very often lasing from the second the bomb leaves the rack.

 

However, lasing too late is a very common problem against moving targets. Since our lasers do not burn out that I have ever seen (just make sure you turn it off when you are done guiding), there really is like no reason you can't always start lasing your target from the second you drop your LGB. Keep in mind, the bomb has to nose over first to get the laser spot in the FOV before it will ever start guiding on it.... this doesn't happen often till like 15-20 secs before impact anyway.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Speed

[bunraku]

Is there a way for me to have the laser on for a long period of time, such as marking Mark points for JDAM's and having accurate markings without having to manually lase every target with the nosewheel button?

[159th_Falcon]

Yes there is, going out the top of my head;

on the TGP page on the MFDs go in the upper LH corner to the advanced menu.

then on the right hand site there is a text called latch off, press the button next to it to switch it to, latch on.

If you now it the NWS button the laser should go and stay on, hit it again and it goes off.

[bunraku]

Thanx mate

[Dejjvid]

But are we sure that lasing the distance really has any effect in game? If yes, please provide any evidence.

[FreeFall]

But are we sure that lasing the distance really has any effect in game? If yes, please provide any evidence.

 

Rather old video, but anyway:

 

IOZ18GNPI-c

[Teiwaz]

Hello fellow tank busters!

 

I'm kinda reluctant to reactivate this thread, but as I couldn't find a better suited thread for my question I'm posting it here.

 

I'm curious about the interaction of Auto Lase & Latch On settings. It seems to me that an LGB will not hit a manually lased target when Auto Lase is also given and I just want to know why that would be the case.

 

Let me give you an example to better clarify the issue (GBU-12 used).

 

-) 3 not moving targets get marked as A, B & C to make later localization with TGP easier/faster

-) 1. bombing run, using Auto Lase (10s) & Latch Off (= no manual lasing), level flight at 10,000ft --> direct hit

-) targets move around a bit, so whe point our TGP (point mode) at the new location of target #2 - afaik not setting the new location as SPI doesn't matter as the laser will always point at TGP center

-) 2. bombing run, using Latch On & no Auto Lase, level flight at 10,000ft --> direct hit

-) localize target #3

-) 3. bombing run, using Auto Lase (10s) & Latch On (= manually activating the laser when starting the run), level flight at 10,000ft --> miss

 

I'm absolutely no expert and still learning, but I know how to use Auto Lase & Latch On and I normally hit my targets with LGB's when I'm using one or the other. TGP wasn't masked and I definitely was lasing the target.

 

As far as I'm concerned "double lasing" shouldn't be a problem, but apparently it seems to be a problem.

 

Does anyone of you have an explanation for me?