Questions About Flaming Cliffs 2.0, F-15 Jet

[ErichVon]

I have the LockOn Platinum boxed, 2- CDs set. I have the latest patches.

 

104th Phoenix server likes to play the sim on their multplayer server in full, realistic simulation mode. The only F-key that functions, is the F11 key.

 

Is there an in-cockpit idiot-light to let me know the air brake is deployed up? I can hear the air turbulence when it is up.

 

Map? How do you know where you are? What do you guys do, buy a map of the Baltic States through the ED e-store with co-ordinants on the map.

 

I deliberately flew into hostile territory to get a feel of how the incoming SAM missiles work. I was looking right at the area they would be coming from according to the in-cockpit radar. I saw nothing, no missile smoke, or any indication before I got hit. I got an in-cockpit Betty warning of losing an engine and I punched out. Waiting too long trying to work-around the problems and too late---I am dead.

 

Does the Flaming Cliffs 2 servers have only the full realistic mode in Multiplayer?

 

More questions later as I progress.

 

I started with DCS: A-10C and do that pretty good.

 

Have been messing with the DCS: Black Shark, this will take awhile to even fly it.

 

I just setup my own CH Products profile for Flaming Cliffs 2 and am learning it, started with the F-15.

 

F-15 looks like there are no clickable by mouse switches or MFCD push-buttons in-cockpit.

 

Thanks for any help.

[ErichVon]

Map source is this STICKY:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=55011

[SNAFU]

It`s been too many years since I tinkered around with the F-15, but I am pretty sure there is a speed brakes indication/monitoring, similor to the ones of the A-10A. Take a look into the manual, that will help. ;)

Concerning navigation online on full-switch server, you don´t need a printed map, even though methinks it is helpfully. I study the briefing before take off and recall where the waypoints are and look for general landmarks to get my bearings. If you play a little longer in the old theatre of ED, you will get familar with the Caucasian map. Just a matter of practise.

 

There are some issues with the RWR and Launch-Warning caused by different versions of client and host, but as far as I remember the 104th Server is hosting a FC2 version, so you should have no problems. I guess you were flying low and got hit by a IR guided missle. You`ll get no warning for IR launched missles, surface or airborne launched. For MiGs or Sus - they have an electro-optical tracking device, which enables them to find, track and launch an IR missle on you, without you getting any warning. ;)

[Haggart]

Is there an in-cockpit idiot-light to let me know the air brake is deployed up? I can hear the air turbulence when it is up.

Actually, there is, right on top of the burner lights. Look to your lower right cockpit on the secondary warning panel. The red light's burning if the airbrake is deployed (check attached pic).

Map? How do you know where you are? What do you guys do, buy a map of the Baltic States through the ED e-store with co-ordinants on the map.

Kinda. Some of us have the printed map available... somewhere, I personally have the map available as JPEG somewhere in the forum on my tablet and I'm trying to keep basic orientation by the knowledge of flown distance + heading to plot my course. It's not very precisely, but it helps; and if you know where a waypoint is on the map, you can plot your posit also by bullseye nav (there's also a post to that topic somewhere).

Does the Flaming Cliffs 2 servers have only the full realistic mode in Multiplayer?

Depending on what your ask as full realistic mode. In short - the realism options in the Singleplayer Config also configures your multiplayer realism degree (if the "apply to all missions"-checkbox is set, else the settings can be overriden by mission designers). But all they manage are view settings and g-effects and such things, no "big" easy things like the easy flight mode in the shark (or at least I knever had the feeling of the "game flight mode" much more easy, but that depends again on who you ask). Most servers (especially wing servers) have the realism-settings on full realism to provide fairness.

Have been messing with the DCS: Black Shark, this will take awhile to even fly it.

Not surprising, as it's the most complicated flying object ED simulated 'till now (in my opinion ;) ) - but if you get to manage it finally, you'll really have fun and satisfaction! ;)

F-15 looks like there are no clickable by mouse switches or MFCD push-buttons in-cockpit.

No FC-aircraft has a clickable cockpit and only one has an advanced flight model (the Su-25T); also the flight and system models aren't as advanced as the DCS-series (thats what DCS is for! ^^). Wait one to two decades and you'll have the FC-aircrafts in DCS-fidelity. *dreaming*

[Rhinox]

...I deliberately flew into hostile territory to get a feel of how the incoming SAM missiles work. I was looking right at the area they would be coming from according to the in-cockpit radar. I saw nothing, no missile smoke, or any indication before I got hit...

no smoke: some missiles have smokeless (or nearly-smokeless) engines. These are very hard to spot visually...

 

no warning: for IR-missiles you do not have any warning device in F15. For radar-guided missiles, not sure about F15, but in russian-jets RWR works only to +/-45 degree from you horizontal plane (the one "fixed" with jet). If radar is deep below you or you so line-of-sight makes higher angle with jet-plane, you do not get any RWR-signal.

 

BTW, your RWR indicates location of tracking radar, not missile-launcher (which need not be on the same place)! You might turn away from radar after lock&launch warning just to fly directly towards incomming missile...

Edited August 23, 2011 by Rhinox

[ErichVon]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Yeah, I kind of got the idea the Russian aircraft might be better at it. I see few guys flying the F-15. When I'm fooling around with the Black Shark and watch guys take off in the Russian jets.

 

I figure the idea flying towards an IR missle is maybe less chance it will home in on my engine? Or maybe lessen the distance hoping to get to it before it is armed?

 

 

 

Thanks.

Edited August 25, 2011 by ErichVon

[EtherealN]

Better at what? Detecting incoming missiles? No, russian jets are not better at it.

 

Russian RWR detection: Azimuth +/- 180 degrees, Elevation +/- 30 degrees.

American RWR detection: Azimuth +/- 180 degrees, Elevation +/- 45 degrees.

(Pages 211 and 213 in the Manual.)

[Essah]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Yeah, I kind of got the idea the Russian aircraft might be better at it. I see few guys flying the F-15. When I'm fooling around with the Black Shark and watch guys take off in the Russian jets.

 

I figure the idea flying towards an IR missle is maybe less chance it will home in on my engine? Or maybe lessen the distance hoping to get to it before it is armed?

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Modern IR Missiles are all aspect which means they will home on you from front aspect too without problem.

[ErichVon]

Better at what? Detecting incoming missiles? No, russian jets are not better at it.

 

Russian RWR detection: Azimuth +/- 180 degrees, Elevation +/- 30 degrees.

American RWR detection: Azimuth +/- 180 degrees, Elevation +/- 45 degrees.

(Pages 211 and 213 in the Manual.)

 

Hi,

 

Better at:

=========

Russian aircraft firing missiles on an F-15 undetectable, as to one of the previous posts mentioned this characteric about their stealth weapons' ability, within this thread.

[159th_Viper]

Nothing stealthy at all.

 

Read up on the AA-10 Alamo-D.........all that happens is that the Russian fighter will locate and lock you up on EOS, BOOM and you're history!

 

Pilot's lack of Situational Awareness on the receiving end of said Alamo does not accord the the Russian Fighters with 'Stealth Weapon ability'.......no no no definitely not ;)

[GGTharos]

Don't worry, you'll consider F-15's stealthy enough when AMRAAMs come flying at you out of nowhere ;)

 

Hi,

 

Better at:

=========

Russian aircraft firing missiles on an F-15 undetectable, as to one of the previous posts mentioned this characteric about their stealth weapons' ability, within this thread.

[ErichVon]

Don't worry, you'll consider F-15's stealthy enough when AMRAAMs come flying at you out of nowhere ;)

 

Some flight sim I flew years ago, I could launch 4 long range missiles, up to 4 independent targets, all done by radar and no visual reference and the missles were fire and forget. Maybe it was the F-14 Tomcat or F-117A; IBM 386, Microprose, DOS sims.

 

I don't know if it is my age, I'll be 60 in November, or the brain hemorrhage I did about 10 years ago, but it all seemed simpler when I was learning and doing flight sims when I was younger. Now, it is such an effort, the learning process, but granted, the sims today are more complicated. I'm not complaining. I think it is good for the brain to always be learning new stuff and not too much TV watching.

[GGTharos]

FC2's radar representation is fairly simple.

The difference might be that those 'fire and forget' weapons aren't actually quite as 'fire and forget' as most people think. These missiles need to reach a distance at which they can actually detect and track the target first.

[EtherealN]

Hi,

 

Better at:

=========

Russian aircraft firing missiles on an F-15 undetectable, as to one of the previous posts mentioned this characteric about their stealth weapons' ability, within this thread.

 

The ranges required for this are such that the F-15 either should already know the enemy is there (and thus have launched a Slammer on him), or the F-15 pilot needs to work on his SA.

 

All these "undetectable" attacks are just heaters with a bit of extra range (R-27T and R-27ET) compared to western heaters, locked up through EOS. A flanker or Mig won't lock anything smaller than saturn at a range where that thing, if it carries AIM-120's, cannot fire back or lock. Essentially, these "undetectable" attacks require two things:

 

1) You need to fly low.

2) Preferably with hills all around you

 

This to make sure you don't get detected. If you are on his radar scope, your "undetectable" attack is fairly pointless since you is already detected. ;) However, this introduces some problems:

 

a) Said terrain masking limits your SA severely. You'll have as little clue what's on the other side of the ridge as they have what's in your ridge...

b) You'll be low, meaning that you'll launch your weapons through dense air, severely limiting their effective range. (Like the case of the ET - it's supposed to be long range, but in case of head-on engagement it has barely more range than the R-73 dogfight missile or, for that matter, an AIM-9 which is also "undetectable". In tailon the seeker has an easier time locking, sure, but that guy isn't the one who is pointing 8 Slammers at you. ;) )

 

Really, the "stealth weapons" aren't anything special at all. They are completely normal weapons with a heat-seeker in the nose, and their utility as "stealth" weapons is limited. A more sane method of use for them - and the one that tends to get me - is to launch an R-27R or R-27ER and then follow that shot up with a T-variant. I'll notch for the defense against the radar missile, defeat that, and then get annihilated by the IR missile. (See my "Location" :D ) Note though that there's nothing stealth about this tactic - the engagement was an open one, it's just a different use of the weapons. And the solution to my problem, of course, is to just be better and defend against more than a semi-shot when doing the tango with a Flanker or Mig.

Edited August 26, 2011 by EtherealN

[EtherealN]

FC2's radar representation is fairly simple.

The difference might be that those 'fire and forget' weapons aren't actually quite as 'fire and forget' as most people think. These missiles need to reach a distance at which they can actually detect and track the target first.

 

Meh, AIM-120D's and datalink. Fire-and-forget as far as the launching aircraft is concerned, anyone else on the network can take care of it. :P

[ErichVon]

Actually, there is, right on top of the burner lights. Look to your lower right cockpit on the secondary warning panel. The red light's burning if the airbrake is deployed (check attached pic).

 

-----------------------snipped-------------------

 

Hi,

 

Yep, the air-brake warning light is right where you said it was.

 

Heck of a way to find a good view of that warning lights panel, but I bet there is some key combination as to a better view of it.

 

I will get me the book manual if I can find it somewhere, preferably a USA supplier. I really do not like the on-line manuals except I do like their search capabilities.

 

Thank you.

[EtherealN]

Regarding manuals, I'd actually totally recommend getting a tablet. Doesn't have to be an 800 dollar iPad or anything like that - anything with a reasonable screen and a pdf viewer and then you've got the best of both worlds. :)

 

(I've actually practically stopped purchasing novels in book form as well, reading on tablets is just so convenient: you can make room for the whole congressional library on one of those, and it'll automatically keep track of where you're at. :) )

 

Do you use TrackIR? If not, that really is a superb way of keeping eyeball on everything in the cockpit - it becomes just as natural as if you were sitting in the real thing.

[cichlidfan]

Lockon Flaming Cliffs 2 Flight Manual

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lock-Flaming-Cliffs-Flight-Manual/dp/1296801004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314420803&sr=8-1

[EtherealN]

US listing for the manual: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1296801004/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&qid=1314420970&sr=8-7&condition=all

 

Wow. I got sniped. How the heck did that happen? :(

[cichlidfan]

Wow. I got sniped. How the heck did that happen? :(

 

I believe you may have blinked, and dozed off!:P

[ErichVon]

Regarding manuals, I'd actually totally recommend getting a tablet. Doesn't have to be an 800 dollar iPad or anything like that - anything with a reasonable screen and a pdf viewer and then you've got the best of both worlds. :)

 

(I've actually practically stopped purchasing novels in book form as well, reading on tablets is just so convenient: you can make room for the whole congressional library on one of those, and it'll automatically keep track of where you're at. :) )

 

Do you use TrackIR? If not, that really is a superb way of keeping eyeball on everything in the cockpit - it becomes just as natural as if you were sitting in the real thing.

 

I do have TrackIR, both sensors---1 with their black hat; the other with the clip to the headset and the latest version. I am still getting used to it. In Warthog, TrackIR slowed me down quite a bit, but maybe with FC being 32 bit maybe I will do better. I built this machine with an i7-920 chip and it is pretty fast, but not fast enough for DCS. Well, I am going to build a faster one pretty soon. This machine can replace my Pentium 4 Dell. I will still keep the Dell as standby, but not hooked up. It is nice to have another PC to use when building a new one.

 

I like books. I find it hard to change. In machine shop I really had no problem accepting NC tape and later CNC and DRO on the mills (digital read outs), but all these new digital gadgets---I just can't keep up. I hate looking up machine shop supply items to purchase using an online catalog---I like hardcopy catalog.

Edited August 27, 2011 by ErichVon
too much beer

[ErichVon]

US listing for the manual: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1296801004/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true&qid=1314420970&sr=8-7&condition=all

 

Wow. I got sniped. How the heck did that happen? :(

 

Thanks for both Amazon links. That is the same outfit I purchased through Amazon to get the Black Shark manual. The BS manual was a steel ring binding, but not a coil binding. My wife has an account with them. I will try to get the manual ordered this morning before this hurricane comes rolling in.

 

(I live northwest out of NY City but they are still expecting 65 mph gusts and a lot of rain. It probably will be a tropical storm when it gets here tomorrow night. Unless that thing turns, we will be on the northwest quadrant of that thing. Hurricanes' rain machine is especially bad on its northeast quadrant, except current reports say our side is going to get the increased rain. But I expect we will lose power and internet for awhile. I bet KonKuSSion will get hit hard, he is in Richmond, Virginia and he was pretty close to the earthquake earlier in the week, also. We felt the quake here and I am 7 hours driving time from Richmond.

 

I need to get me a gas powered electric generator. Home Depot and Lowes, locally, were sold out already. Forget flashlight batteries, but I am good. We used to wilderness backpack in the mountains, even in winter, we have our survival gear. I worry more about tree damage hitting the house or no electricity too long and my cellar sump pump going out. That brain hemorrhage I had ten years ago, I can't do the mountains anymore. I can go about 4 miles then the migraines kick in. We used to hike 20 miles a day. I suppose age 59 might have something to do with it. I have been in backcountry in really bad rain storms---that is not fun.)

 

Your ejecting pilots need a search and rescue component---LOL! I was Navy Seabees awhile. One of our battalion guys was a survivalist type and actually volunteered for SERE school, for fun, no less. SERE school is not fun. That guy was kind of nutty.

Edited August 27, 2011 by ErichVon

[EtherealN]

I do have TrackIR, both sensors---1 with their black hat; the other with the clip to the headset and the latest version. I am still getting used to it.

 

Ah, in that case I would definitely suggest spending some time to get used to that one. Might be worth trying out some profiles for it as well if you experience it to be a bit jerky. Essentially, resorting to snap-views will cause you to let go of your HOTAS and lose SA through not scanning the outside.

 

With some practice, you'll essentially see if it's shining or not without really looking - just a "red light/no red light" in the peripheral vision.

 

I like books. I find it hard to change. In machine shop I really had no problem accepting NC tape and later CNC and DRO on the mills (digital read outs), but all these new digital gadgets---I just can't keep up. I hate looking up machine shop supply items to purchase using an online catalog---I like hardcopy catalog.

 

Can't teach an old dog new tricks, eh? :)

My dad is sort of similar - but worse; he can't even pay his bills online and has outsourced his e-mail to me. (Most of his e-mail is business related anyhow, and I work in the business, so that comes natural.) But the iPad he likes and actually uses, which is pretty impressive.

 

I also do like books though - I bought a massive stack on a shopping spree last year that I'm still working through (one of those cases where I read one book by an author, decide I liked it, and immediately go out and purchase all the books the guy has written in his 30 year career as a full-time author :P ). But with me doing a lot of traveling it's really nice to not have to think about which book(s) I pack in the bag. Just slap the tablet into it's sleeve, get that into my man-purse, and I'm all set to do any reading I ever might find myself wanting to do. (You don't want to get stuck with Sci-Fi when in a more piloty mood, f.ex. And worst ever was when I was working in russia and ran out of books...)

[ErichVon]

Ah, in that case I would definitely suggest spending some time to get used to that one. Might be worth trying out some profiles for it as well if you experience it to be a bit jerky. Essentially, resorting to snap-views will cause you to let go of your HOTAS and lose SA through not scanning the outside.

 

With some practice, you'll essentially see if it's shining or not without really looking - just a "red light/no red light" in the peripheral vision.

 

 

 

Can't teach an old dog new tricks, eh? :)

My dad is sort of similar - but worse; he can't even pay his bills online and has outsourced his e-mail to me. (Most of his e-mail is business related anyhow, and I work in the business, so that comes natural.) But the iPad he likes and actually uses, which is pretty impressive.

 

I also do like books though - I bought a massive stack on a shopping spree last year that I'm still working through (one of those cases where I read one book by an author, decide I liked it, and immediately go out and purchase all the books the guy has written in his 30 year career as a full-time author :P ). But with me doing a lot of traveling it's really nice to not have to think about which book(s) I pack in the bag. Just slap the tablet into it's sleeve, get that into my man-purse, and I'm all set to do any reading I ever might find myself wanting to do. (You don't want to get stuck with Sci-Fi when in a more piloty mood, f.ex. And worst ever was when I was working in russia and ran out of books...)

 

Yeah, long flights can get a bit boring. I always get a window seat and enjoy the view. I usually grab a magazine and/or a book as standby at the airport. But I usually end up sleeping. I love flying over a good lightning storm at night and watch the cloud to cloud lightning.

 

I was Navy Reserve Seabees for 8 years and volunteered for a construction remodeling job to GITMO in Cuba in 1977, before the acronym GITMO was recognized worldwide by the news media. We flew out of Willow Grove Naval Air Station, then, in some kind of Reserve fleet 4 engine prop plane, sub-hunter. It took 7 hours at 10,000 feet to get there. But my window seat, man I remember almost the whole flight. I could see the sea pretty good and all the junk floating in it and the various cloud fronts of interesting and varied cloud formations. And had a smoking engine. Life raft hanging off an internal bulkhead, we each had our mae-west life preservers and our captain's reassurance that this plane, if we ditch, floats the longest in the inventory. LOL!

[ErichVon]

Lockon Flaming Cliffs 2 Flight Manual

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lock-Flaming-Cliffs-Flight-Manual/dp/1296801004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314420803&sr=8-1

 

Hi,

 

Thanks to you guys. I just ordered the Tactical Map for FC2 (same ISBN as the England site), and the Flight manual for FC2 from the same guy I bought the Black Shark flight manual from, but through Amazon.com

 

The reason I want to mess with FC2, even with the Black Shark is it is more interaction with real people in a more combat environment other than just taking out AI targets.

 

Oh, yeah, you know I cannot wait until DCS gets more aircraft to dodge from or aerial dogfight combat and guys have more servers to play on that are not locked.

 

Thank you,

Edited August 27, 2011 by ErichVon