Laser wont fire on MARK point?

[Fakum]

I am trying to figure out what I might be doing wrong? I thought I had this laser guided bomb figured out some time ago, but I recently went back to some training to brush up, but I’m finding that I am not getting the laser to fire at 10 seconds before impact IF I am cycling targets thru MARK MODE. I’ve attached the track, excuse the roughness as I was dealing with other distractions at the same time I did this track.

I basically setup the GBU-12 profile as auto laser, 10 seconds, CCRP.

I setup the TGP to laser latch because, I like to laser multiple targets and mark them as MARK points.

I come in on 4 bunkers, point track each, hit laser, TMS Right short to mark all as MARK points.

Switch to MARK on steer dial, cycle the steer rocker to confirm I have A thru D mark points. Set to Mark point A.

Now when I come in this mode, the target is neither in Area or Point on the TGP, but INR. I believe this is where I am forgetting about something, because if I come in and mark the target in the TGP, go from AREA to POINT, then set SPI, I have no problem with laser firing at 10 sec and hitting target.

Back to cycling targets thru MARK POINT mode, if I select MARK POINT A and slew to steer point, target is in the cross hairs on the TGP, and it is in INR. (This is whats NOT working), I have to slew off the target until I see AREA mode, slew back to target and set to Point,,, then it works (because I am in POINT mode)? Does this sound right? I’d hate to think if I mark multiple targets in the same area, I have to go thru this process of cycling to MARK point, then slewing off and back on to set SPI for each target?

[ATTACH]58448[/ATTACH]

[Boomer]

Laser can't fire if you don't set your SPI.

 

Also if I understood correctly you are bombing multiple targets in a single run? You can't do that with the LGB's as the Laser can fire only on one target (SPI) at the time. You should be using GPS/INS guided bombs for that purpose.

[kylania]

Different mark points are best used for GPS guided weapons like the GBU-38. It doesn't really work well for laser guided weapons like the GBU-12 since you need to maintain contact with the laser on target while the bomb drops. Multiple marks are OK for the '38s, since you drop and forget the weapon. So while you can have multiple drop JDAM passes multiple drop LGB passes are less effective unless you're realllly high up.

[Fakum]

Just to clarify, I was NOT trying to make a single pass to hit these targets in one pass, I do know that if I am using laser guided, I have to keep the laser on that particular target until impact. I was simply marking the targets initially (and yes, I was turning the laser off after marking).

 

The point is, even if i only marked 1 target, if I come in on it with a laser guided bomb, I apparently cannot use the mark point I created as it wont fire the laser in that mode? One comment here says its because I didnt set SPI is the reason it wont fire, another comment says thats not true?

[Fakum]

Thanks for the feedback,,, but can you please eloborate on what your talking about, in Slave and Breaking Slave? Thanks

[Fakum]

Ahhh,, ok I see what your saying,,, thats pretty much what I stated here,, I just worded it differently,,, Basically,, I slave all sensors to mark point,,, then slew the TGP crosshairs OFF the target until it switches to AREA, then set POINT, then I have no problems as mentioned,,,

 

if I select MARK POINT A and slew to steer point, target is in the cross hairs on the TGP, and it is in INR. (This is whats NOT working), I have to slew off the target until I see AREA mode, slew back to target and set to Point,,, then it works

[Fakum]

Yes, I see your point, i was only saying that if I want to auto lase, I have to slew off and reaquire in area/point. I will try coming in to the markpoint then manual lase to see if that works as you say,, I cant remember if I tried that? Thanks

[Fakum]

Hmmm,,, I rolled in on MARK POINT, laser did not fire as expected, manually lased target, actually watched GBU-12 steer itself in the usual fashion about 10 seconds out,, but it impacted no where near the mark point,,, hmmm,,, will have to make a track on this,,, I will fiddle around a bit on this 1st though

[kylania]

Sounds like it didn't have enough energy to correct it's flight path. How high were you when you dropped it and how close to the target?

[Fakum]

Hmmm,,, I will try a few passes,,, what do you recommend for a height?

[kylania]

10-12,000 or so is what I usually drop from.

[Fish]

Have not looked at your trk yet, but will do it in a while.

 

Might be obvious point, but in 'mark' mode, you make a mark an spi with TMS DOWN long. All (Steerpoint SPI), then slave sensors. Now when you cycle the marks, SPI's cycles also. Other spi's you make with TMS UP LONG.

[Fakum]

Not really following you Fish? Probably part of my problem though? I didnt make it a habit to TMS Down LONG (Cancel current SPI). Then I kinda lost ya on the " All (Steerpoint SPI), then slave sensors"

 

Procedure I used was:

 

TGP=SOI

I then cycled my steer points to the target area.

China Hat AFT LONG (slew to steer point)

Slew crosshairs in TGP to a target

TMS Up Short (Point Track Target)

Fire Laser on Target (L Flashes in TGP)

TMS Right Short (Create Markpoint A)

Turned off laser firing

Switch Steer Point Dial to "MARK"

Steer Point Rocker Switch will now cycle through Markpoints I created

Toggle Steerpoint Rocker to "A"

China Hat AFT LONG (Slews All Sensors to Steer Point)(Which should be Mark Point "A", and it does)

Roll in on target

CCRP Mode releases bomb correctly

Laser does not fire as profile is set up to do unless I slew off the same target and reaquire from Area to Point mode.

[kylania]

TGP=SOI

I then cycled my steer points to the target area.

China Hat AFT LONG (slew to steer point)

Slew crosshairs in TGP to a target

TMS Up Short (Point Track Target)

Fire Laser on Target (L Flashes in TGP)

TMS Right Short (Create Markpoint A)

Turned off laser firing

Switch Steer Point Dial to "MARK"

Steer Point Rocker Switch will now cycle through Markpoints I created

Toggle Steerpoint Rocker to "A"

China Hat AFT LONG (Slews All Sensors to Steer Point)(Which should be Mark Point "A", and it does)

TMS Up Long to set your lased target as SPI.

Roll in on target

CCRP Mode releases bomb correctly

 

You don't need the red steps in there at all, but you were forgetting to set the target as SPI (the added step in blue there).

 

Here's a video that shows the process from slewing the TGP, to setting up AutoLase, to selecting the target and setting it as SPI, to hitting the target. It's a little fast, but I added some annotations for you.

 

Edited November 8, 2011 by kylania

[FreeFall]

China Hat AFT LONG (Slews All Sensors to Steer Point)

 

China Hat Aft Long slaves TGP to Steerpoint.

[Fakum]

@kylania: Those are steps i use when I go to a target area that has multiple targets. I prefer to MARK them all 1st so I can easily select the next target as I am manuvering etc. Setting the SPI once I have hit the steer rocker to the next target then slaving the TGP to it is a step I seemed to have missed along the way.

 

@FreeFall: You are indeed correct, I have used the statement incorrectly. But I am using the procedure correctly yes? I am getting the TGP to the target I previously MARKED. I have always understood that in MARK steering Mode, the MARK points are concidered STEER points, therfor you toggle the steer rocker to cycle thru your MARK points. I mean, it does do that,,, if Im doing something wrong here, it appears to be SPI related. Since I have created MARK points, and I want to slew the TGP to them, and they are NOT SPI's, it doesnt make sense to me to do China Hat FWD (Slew to SPI). Not suggesting thats what your inferring, just thinking here.

 

Thanks guys for the help as usual

[FreeFall]

Im just learning myself, so who am I to give advice. But as Fish mentioned before (message #12), I think you should use TMS Aft Long to slave SPI to Steerpoint as well.

[Fakum]

@kylania:

 

I appreciate the video,, Ive seen that quite some time ago,,, Like I said, I have no issue with comming in on a single target after setting it as SPI (Like the video shows), the case Im making is when I make multiple MARK points and I then slew to them, thats when the laser wont fire, unless I slew off the mark point, then reaquire in point track. I will try and add the step of TMS UP LONG (to SET SPI) thanks anyway.

 

@Freefall: Thanks for the help, but are you meaning to say TMS UP LONG (to SET SPI)?

[Fish]

Not really following you Fish? Probably part of my problem though.....

 

 

Ignore my last post. Setting SPI definitely not your problem here.

 

Tried the mission several ways. Here's what i found

 

1. When using Mark point as SPI (tms back long), Cannot get laser to stay on. (in manual mode it flashes a bit then constant).

2. When I make the TGP spi, (first TGP SOI), then TMS fwd long, I get manual lasing and autolase working fine.

3. With 1. above, I could hit target by constantly pressing/releasing the Laser, to keep it active for last 10 seconds.

4. In 1 above, sensors were slaved to mark points fine, since TGP moved when i changed mark point.

5. Wheather i slave all sensors (CHN FWD LONG), or just TGP to SPI (CHN AFT LONG), makes not difference to 1. above.

 

Someone else might explain whats happening.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Fish

[kylania]

1. When using Mark point as SPI (tms back long), Cannot get laser to stay on. (in manual mode it flashes a bit then constant).

 

Did you already have a SPI set? TMS Aft Long is "Move SPI to steerpoint" not "Make SPI at steerpoint". So not sure that would work if you didn't already have a SPI. I'll try that tonight.

[Wichid]

I've noticed this as well and recently I've become quite lazy in using markpoints unless I'm dropping JDAMS. Nowadays I just point the TGP at things and make them go bomb (TGP as SPI).

[Fish]

Did you already have a SPI set?......

 

Believe i tried it both ways. But always made sure Mark point was set as the spi (with the tadpole tail). Also made sure to slave sensors to it.

[Fakum]

Sorry to have made such a mess of this, but it seems I am not the only one who is having some difficulty understand this. I appreciate the help regardless.

I just made another run at 4 bunkers, making MARK points A,B,C & D. The only way I was able to get the laser to fire as expected was once I was China Hat AFT LONG (Slaved to Steer Point, which was a MARK point), then I had to slew the TGP off target just enough so it would break and indicate AREA, then slew back to Target, Point Track, then TMS UP LONG to set SPI.

 

If I rolled in while just slaved to steer point and then TMS UP LONG to SET SPI, it still would not fire laser,,, I had to slew the TGP off the target, then back on and set SPI

[Fish]

The only way I was able to get the laser to fire as expected was once I was China Hat AFT LONG (Slaved to Steer Point, which was a MARK point), then I had to slew the TGP off target just enough so it would break and indicate AREA, then slew back to Target, Point Track, then TMS UP LONG to set SPI.

 

The issue above remains,

 

But it should be pretty easy to make a spi from the TGP, once you selected it as SOI, See point 2. from Post above, and your autolase will then work. Also you should find a way to see the TAD (along with TGP) while running in. There's invaluable SA info from that screen during weapon deployment, especially in EXP2 mode. Remember CDU stuff is repeated on the CDU screen, so you don't need that to be one of the mfcd's.

[BigBlue]

,,, I had to slew the TGP off the target, then back on and set SPI

 

 

 

Since the laser is TGP dependent, it would not operate without it defining the SPI. Is your TGP SOI when your setting the SPI?

Edited November 9, 2011 by BigBlue