AFAC communications and BS2

[MadTommy]

I have a few questions about AFAC & BS2.

 

[* Disclaimer: i do need to read up & remind myself on the radio, ABRIS & PVI-800 usage in BS2]

 

 

• I set up a AFAC flight that was sending me Bulls location for threats. I understand what the Bulls offset distance baring jargon is, but how do i best use this in BS. Is there a way to type this info in like in A10c. Or do i have to lock up the Bulls with the abris and try and figure its location that way? (Bulls offset is not mentioned anywhere in the BS2 manual)
  

 

 

• Is this incorrectly simulated?.. should a Russian AFAC be giving offset bulls locations to a Ka-50 pilot?
  

 

 

• If as a mission designer i want to simulate a radio message to pilots giving targets what is the best system to use.. what works and what is accurate to real life?
  
• 
  

Thanks for any help.

Edited November 8, 2011 by MadTommy
typo

[Eddie]

I have a few questions about AFAC & BS2.

 

[* Disclaimer: i do need to read up & remind myself on the radio, ABRIS & PVI-800 usage in BS2]

 

 

• I set up a AFAC flight that was sending me Bulls location for threats. I understand what the Bulls offset distance baring jargon is, but how do i best use this in BS. Is there a way to type this info in like in A10c. Or do i have to lock up the Bulls with the abris and try and figure its location that way? (Bulls offset is not mentioned anywhere in the BS2 manual)
  

 

• Is this incorrectly simulated?.. should a Russian AFAC being giving offset bulls locations to a Ka-50 pilot?
  

 

• If as a mission designer i want to simulate a radio message to pilots giving targets what is the best system to use.. what works and what is accurate to real life?
  

Thanks for any help.

 

On your first point, there is no easy way to do it, the Hokum has a lot to be desired in term of avionics. I'm not even sure the Russians use the Bullseye system in reality.

 

Point two, I'm really not sure how the Russians handle JTAC/AFAC etc or if they even use them remotely like western forces (or at all for that matter). Hopefully someone with more knowledge of Russian tactics and procedures can help there.

 

Point 3, now that's pretty easy. There are two main ways to do it. The first and simplest is by using the triggers in the ME you can set a text message or an audio message (or both) to activate when the conditions of a trigger are met. This works equally well in SP and MP and can be used to produce some very realistic scenarios.

 

The second method uses lua scripts and other such black magic output tasks via the chat menu, I belive this is intended for MP use although I don't know if it can be used in SP. The lua scripting is discussed at length over in the A-10C mission editor forum and the main man in the know is Speed. How this works I really can't help with, as quite frankly I think it's witchcraft and wizardry.

[MadTommy]

Thanks Eddie..

 

Point 3, now that's pretty easy. There are two main ways to do it. The first and simplest is by using the triggers in the ME you can set a text message or an audio message (or both) to activate when the conditions of a trigger are met. This works equally well in SP and MP and can be used to produce some very realistic scenarios.

 

The second method uses lua scripts and other such black magic output tasks via the chat menu, I belive this is intended for MP use although I don't know if it can be used in SP. The lua scripting is discussed at length over in the A-10C mission editor forum and the main man in the know is Speed. How this works I really can't help with, as quite frankly I think it's witchcraft and wizardry.

 

On point 3 i should have been a little clearer.. i understand the mechanics/system in the editor for getting simulated radio messages to players.. what i was really after was the the format these message should take.

 

E.G.

Lat/long, lat/long digitial, UTM, Bullseye Offset (discounted), description (4km north west of Zugdidi) etc etc..

 

Thanks.

[kylania]

Whichever format you want to use to be honest. Personally I enjoy playing missions where each one is different so I'd change up the formats as I could. Sometimes L/L, sometimes UTM. Bulleye Offset is broken, but fixed soon so that'll be OK too. Descriptions are OK as long as they are clear enough, tossing some smoke would be useful as well.

 

I'm not entirely sure how easy data input on the fly is for the Abris, but for the A-10C at least all data entry is quick and easy so there's no one method that I prefer really.

[ZaltysZ]

• If as a mission designer i want to simulate a radio message to pilots giving targets what is the best system to use.. what works and what is accurate to real life?

I don't know Russian protocol, but maybe this can be used as hints:

 

1) Pilot must know area of operation. He have to study the map before flight and needs to know landmarks. It must be supposed that landmarks might be used not only for navigation, but in communication with friendly forces too. As mission designer, you can mark them in ABRIS in advance.

 

2) Every force use some sort of reference points, because it is easier that way. We are stuck with NATO bullseye reporting, what isn't very useful for Russian birds. You can workaround that by: a) setting bullseye as Target Point, that way pilot can select it and check his relative position by using HSI b) you can do some drawing in ABRIS and put circles repressing bullseye (helicopter is slow, and so his area of operation is small enough for such drawing to be useful).

 

3) FAC should be giving latitude/langitude of target + descriptive information and notes. Pilot can punch coordinates into new target point via PVI and get navigation information + ability to turn Shkval directly at target automatically. This can be tricky with INS drift, but unfortunately, we don't have it.

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie..

 

 

 

On point 3 i should have been a little clearer.. i understand the mechanics/system in the editor for getting simulated radio messages to players.. what i was really after was the the format these message should take.

 

E.G.

Lat/long, lat/long digitial, UTM, Bullseye Offset (discounted), description (4km north west of Zugdidi) etc etc..

 

Thanks.

 

For the Ka-50 Lat/Long or visual reference would be the best option as the Hokum can't do MGRS. As for format, the best thing you could do is spend some time watching CAS vids on youtube etc and listen into the comms and take note. Also learning some brevity, specifically the CAS related stuff would help with putting some realistic radio taskings together.

[EvilBivol-1]

As far as I know the Russians still use a basic map system, where the FAC and the pilot have the same map with the same grid system. The FAC first identifies the large square on the map, and then one of 9 sub-squares within the large sqare (1 being the center and from there increasing counter-clockwise, so that 9 ends up being the top left sub-square. From there I think it's all just voice guidance for visual contact witht he target.

 

I doubt there is any good way of doing it this way in DCS.

 

Recently they've been testing and trying more automated systems, but even there it's probably more like sending a datalink target similar to what we do in Black Shark.

[sorcer3r]

L/L coordinates is a good way. Then i can edit my flight plan in abris.

 

or give the ka50s a waypoint which is the missions bullseye. Then also bullseye coordinates will work.

editing flightplsn in abris

doesnt need a lot of time

Edited November 8, 2011 by sorcer3r

[STP Dragon]

L/L coordinates is a good way. Then i can edit my flight plan in abris.

 

or give the ka50s a waypoint which is the missions bullseye. Then also bullseye coordinates will work.

editing flightplsn in abris

doesnt need a lot of time

 

Maybe you can create a video tutorial for this. :music_whistling:

[MadTommy]

All good stuff.

 

Especially making the map Bullseye align with either a waypoint, nav point or target point. That will certainly help make the stream of bulleye readouts from AFAC flights actually useful.

 

Maybe you can create a video tutorial for this. :music_whistling:

 

Yes please ;) (I'm very rusty on the ABRIS)

[Dejjvid]

You can measure distance and bearing with the line tool iirc. Haven't played for a few months, but it's fairly easy. One of the more popular multiplayer missions only hand out bearing and distance from waypoints. There must be some other players that have used that tool aswell.. :)

 

Else i can check during the weekend and report back.

[sorcer3r]

Yes please ;) (I'm very rusty on the ABRIS)

 

"my way" (coordinates: N 42-05-55 E 041-58-44):

 

 

While creating a new waypoint you can see that abris shows distance and heading from waypoint 04 to the new waypoint.

So if waypoint 04 would be our bullseye i could handle bullseye coordinates.

 

But i guess there could be a problem. In Abris we have km and in the A10 not. So L/Ls are best option IMO.