Weird TGP results

[Rainmaker]

So there I was...

 

Taking on some night AAR just to refresh some skills. Located tanker through TACAN and then picked him up on the pod. Just out of curiosity I flipped it over to A/G and picked him up again in P-TRK. Decided to trigger the laser and got some weird results. It was almost as if I was in the IR mode as the tanker started glowing. The res on the pics are a little low, but it's easy to make out the issue here.

[159th_Viper]

I assume you are referring to the glow around the tanker as opposed to the TGP you refer to in the title. That said, that's the laser energy reflecting off the tanker. Can see the same on the ground when lasing a target.

[Rainmaker]

I assume you are referring to the glow around the tanker as opposed to the TGP you refer to in the title. That said, that's the laser energy reflecting off the tanker. Can see the same on the ground when lasing a target.

 

 

Hmm...never knew this to be in the same spectrum as the NVG's. And have to admit, outside of using the IR marker, I have never seen a regular laser spot on the ground.

[159th_Viper]

Target under NVG:

 

 

Target under NVG painted with IR pointer:

 

 

Target under NVG painted with Laser:

 

[Lane]

Lol this community have some incredible guys...

[Cedaway]

Lol this community have some incredible guys...

 

Yes, and I think the sim is incredibly well coded! I don't know if a dev woke up a day and thought: 'It could be fun to code the reflexion of IR pointer and Laser designator on the NVG'.

Like, you know, every details does count. And that's impressive. And that adds immersion and a soul into the sim. Just my 2cts.

[mooshim]

OMG! Frickin' amazing...

[Olgerd]

If I understand it correctly, Rainmaker is referring to the range to the tanker measured by laser.

[159th_Viper]

If I understand it correctly, Rainmaker is referring to the range to the tanker measured by laser.

 

No - range is correct at 0.3nm and 0.1nm I would have thought, unless you are referring to the middle screenshot?

[EtherealN]

The middle screenshot seems correct though - middle shot isn't lasing if I read the picture right, in which case it's all slant range and it goes to that long value (I think that's basically the max value it's got).

[Speed]

Interesting. I didn't know the laser designator was within the spectral response of the NVGs. So why don't we see the beam in the air like with the laser pointer? Does the designator simply not shine continuously enough for the integrated scattered radiation to be bright enough to see with NVGs? The laser spot on the ground should be the brightest point, so that make sense at least with the proposed explanation.

 

Or is the laser designator significantly longer in wavelength and affected less by scattering? Or both effects?

 

The details within this sim are indeed amazing :)

Edited November 19, 2011 by Speed

[EtherealN]

Laser physics is over my head (darn wave-particle duality :P ), but one guess of mine would be that the laser itself is not in the wavelenght, but that some of the laser energy striking the target re-emits in a different wavelenght that can be seen by NVGs.

[Olgerd]

Now I see the problem - the bright spot visible on the tanker. Sorry. :)

Well it is not related to any physics, but rather a bug. We are trying to reproduce it now.

[Rainmaker]

Now I see the problem - the bright spot visible on the tanker. Sorry. :)

Well it is not related to any physics, but rather a bug. We are trying to reproduce it now.

 

 

So we are not supposed to be able to see the spot of the laser? Or is this just too bright? I'm confused. I didn't know whether this was a bug or not, hence why I did not call it one at the time when I made the post.

[dok_rp]

You should also be able to visualize the beam and not only the spot glowing off the objects it hits.

 

Seems like a bug.

[Olgerd]

So we are not supposed to be able to see the spot of the laser? Or is this just too bright? I'm confused. I didn't know whether this was a bug or not, hence why I did not call it one at the time when I made the post.

 

No spot for laser should be visible. Spot and line are solely for IR pointer.

[Rainmaker]

No spot for laser should be visible. Spot and line are solely for IR pointer.

 

 

Understand.

 

Gotcha. I guess this was a known bug that was not really known to be a bug then judging by the response and pics on the previous page then I assume.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Rainmaker

[Rainmaker]

If I may interject on here with a previous thread as well.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1329736#post1329736

 

I never saw a response from anyone on this. It is most definetely a bug as well but did not see anything posted as to whether or not it was previously known about.

[jazjar]

Dude, buy a laser pointer. Turn it on and point it to a non mirror surface. Notice that the only spot you can see is the spot on the surface you are shining it on. Not the beam itself. This is physically correct, Olgerd.

[Olgerd]

Dude, buy a laser pointer. Turn it on and point it to a non mirror surface. Notice that the only spot you can see is the spot on the surface you are shining it on. Not the beam itself. This is physically correct, Olgerd.

 

Combat laser of TGP should not be visible neither by naked eye, nor by NVG. Its wavelength simply lies outside of the visible range.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Olgerd

[jazjar]

OK, but think about regular NVGs. They have the infrared system for no light situations, so the NVG can pick up NVG light. The A-10's NVGs may not have the infared emitter, but they can still pick up infared light, which is what a laser emits. Lasers are infared light correct? So no matter what, the light will reflect, and be picked up by NVGs. The IR system reflects off particles in the air, this is why we see the entire beam. The Laser just reflects off the ground, this is why the bomb sees it and your NVGs see it.

[159th_Viper]

Combat laser of TGP should not be visible neither by naked eye, nor by NVG. Its wavelength simply lies outside of the visible range.

 

Yes - laser beam is not visible. However, as jazjar says, what about the reflected laser radiation?

[EtherealN]

jazjar, there is no unitary thing like "infrared light". It's a range normally from like 0.7µm all the way to 300µm. Your cell phone can see infrared very fine - well, parts of it. Photograph your TrackIR unit while it's active and wonder at the difference of what it sees and what your eyes see. But that doesn't make your cell phone an IR device. ;)

 

Your view of lasers is WAY too simplistic.

 

Laser "reflecting" on the ground is not enough for your NVG to see it. The NVG has to be able to see that specific wavelenght!

 

An example: radios. Radio is just another wavelenght of light, but you'll notice that radios are typically not capable of "seeing" the entire radio spectrum.

 

Again though, the critical issue is the frequency range of the NVG's, and the frequency of the reflection.

[Geskes]

No the laser is not IR, the IR beam is IR. :doh: Lasers can be of different wavelength and the laser of the TGP is of a wavelength that human eye cannot see.

[EtherealN]

Geskes, the human eye is not what's being discussed. ;)