Don't Mention the T Word

[MeerCaT]

It's a good point about how the collective has a definite effect on the attitude of the aircraft. It's certainly worth keeping that in mind while performing manouvres.

 

But going back to my original post, I guess would summarise my point as being: I don't fully understand the decision logic employed by the flight control system when it is calculating its contribution to inputs.

And because of this the reactive behaviour I observe when trimming is not meeting the behavour that my subconscious mind calculated as an expectation.

 

So I am here simply to discover the information I am clearly lacking that will bring my own mind's expectation calculation inline with the Shark's flight control calculations.

 

I am not suggesting the simulator is implemented incorrectly (though certainly somehow differently to the previous version). Rather that the training of my brain is incomplete/inaccurate due to missing information/knowledge.

 

 

Using your example of the +10 degree pitch with 11m/s climb rate - at that moment the pitch was steady and the climb rate, although possibly still increasing, was also quite stable and only changing slowly.

The instant that trim was performed, the control system made calculations that resulting in an additional +10 degrees pitch (approximately), and as a side effect of that the climb rate shot up to 17m/s.

 

Was the pitch maintained as it was? - No.

Was the climb/descent rate maintained? - No.

 

So what additional inputs/data/issues are at play here that I am not taking insto consideration, I wonder?

[Xxx]

Meercat, I am really enjoying this post:D

 

Your writing has an inbuilt subtle humor that has me chuckling to myself.:)

 

I have just passed the 100 hour mark on the Ka 50, nominal compared to what a RL Kamov pilot would do, yet its begining to make sense when I fly. I liken it to riding a bicycle or motor bike, because after a while, conscious contol inputs become unconscious. Anyone who rides a bicycle after a while does not "think" how to balance and steer and pedal. As for our Kamov's Cyclic and Trim ( oh I said it:helpsmilie:) and the Collective become as one ( Obeeone?). I liken it to the bicycle in that I do not consciously realise what control inputs and Trims I am making? It seemingly becomes an unconscious set of actions. The only conscious actions become, "who is shootin' at me and where are they etc.", in other words combat actions. Yet I will bet even these would become "unconscious" or automatic if you could get to 1000 hours:pilotfly:

 

Whilst we are "programming" or "teaching" our brain to achieve these inputs as one, so to speak, its difficult to break the actions down into a conceptual model. Suffice to say, the old adage of practice makes perfect would seem to be an Axiom.

 

A RL Kamov pilot and/or some more cockpit footage would be a nice thing.

 

In the meantime keep up the great work. A superb sim and a forum to go with it:thumbup:

 

Cheers.

[Nate--IRL--]

Using your example of the +10 degree pitch with 11m/s climb rate - at that moment the pitch was steady and the climb rate, although possibly still increasing, was also quite stable and only changing slowly.

The instant that trim was performed, the control system made calculations that resulting in an additional +10 degrees pitch (approximately), and as a side effect of that the climb rate shot up to 17m/s.

 

Was the pitch maintained as it was? - No.

Was the climb/descent rate maintained? - No.

 

So what additional inputs/data/issues are at play here that I am not taking insto consideration, I wonder?

 

The Pitch up you describe is most likely not an additional input, but rather the AP control authority being removed on trim button press.

 

The AP is not trying to maintain, +10 degree pitch with 11m/s climb rate, it is simply trying to maintain the attitude the aircraft was at when the trim was last released. If any part of the flight regime has changed since this time, like speed, the AP will have to do more to maintain the set attitude. As the change from the initial regime increases, going faster for example, the greater the AP inputs.

 

Thus, when the trim is pressed again, and this AP control input is suddenly removed, the Aircraft will react to that sudden change in control input.

 

Just because your aircraft is maintaining the set attitude does not mean you don't have to trim. You should trim very often as you accelerate - decelerate, climb - fall, or basically all the time, so the auto pilot is set for current flight regime, and isn't adding large control inputs.

 

Better yet use the FD, it's much more fun.

 

Nate

[cichlidfan]

Times like this when I wished we had recourse to a SME, if only for my own peace-of-mind.

 

It certainly would have shortened this discussion; entertaining though it was!;)

[DanKurt]

I find the trim works differently in BS2 as opposed to BS1 or should I say reacts differently as I think that due to the changes ED has made to Flight dynamics and the way external forces such as wind affect the Ka-50, that we are finding it more of a challenge to get the bird to do what we expect.

I would be interested to know if Viper has changed any settings to the trim delay in the FMoptions.lua?

[159th_Viper]

I would be interested to know if Viper has changed any settings to the trim delay in the FMoptions.lua?

 

No.

 

By virtue of having to test various user-related issues and report if necessary, I never modify my install at all. All tracks and associated feedback provided captured and based on a default, vanilla install.