Project: Maxing out Q9550 rig

[spikenet]

yes, I experienced the same as you, if not worse for a long time. I have a ATI6950 but was still get hopeless FPS. Spending time tweeking the system and in-game options made all the difference for me.

[Griffin]

Hello gents, now that the situation looks more stable financially, I'll continue the upgrade.

I've chosen HD 7870 as my future card thanks to Tom's Hardware best bang for the money comparison.

 

This brings the problem of a new PSU. Someone suggested a 800W PSU which to me seems like a total overkill. My calculations with Thermaltakes PSU calculator that the recommended PSU wattage will be 379 W, which is almost the maximum wattage of my 12 V rails. Also being a cheap 500 W power supply this is definately scary for the expensive graphics card!

 

Even if I calculate my future planned setup overclocked and at full load with that calculator, it still doesn't reach 500 W.

 

So what would be a reasonable headroom wattage wise? 600? 700? At Tom's Hardware, an enthusiast's system would only draw around 500 W.

 

Right now seems like a quality, good effieciency PSU would be enough well into the future. What do you think?

[cichlidfan]

One of the most important things to remember about PSUs is that power stability falls off the closer they get to their max load. How they perform under highrer loads is part of what makes up the Gold, Silver and Bronze ratings for PSUs.

 

My personal preference is to use Corsair AX series Gold rated supplies with the wattage being no less than twice what I expect max load to be. The system in my sig pulls well under 400 watts no matter what but I still left myself a ton of headroom.

 

The PSU is the only component in your system with the ability to take the entire box out if it fails badly. Don't skimp.

Edited August 31, 2012 by cichlidfan

[Bodo]

Yeh echoing what cichlidfan says, I'll recommend the Corsair HX series and I have an 850W version of that range for my setup.

 

Just trying out that Thermaltake PSU calc my system could reach 410W so as far as I'm aware, when running my system fully then I'll be using just under 50% of my PSU. This seems to be where PSUs offer the most effiency.

 

It also leaves me maybe a bit of room to add another GPU, more hard drives, more RAM, overclock if necessary etc etc and not worry about the PSU being a limiter.

 

What did you eventually push your Q9550 to and on what VCore and cooler?

Edited August 31, 2012 by Bodo

[Griffin]

Twice the power that system uses seems like a huge overkill but... I threw in 40 % of capacitor aging in the calculator (which would hopefully make up several years of service) and now it's starting to make sense. There's room for aging and, if I for some reason, decide to get silly and get a second GPU for example, then there should be plenty of room. I read two guides and neither suggested to get twice the power of your draw.

 

The budget seems to skyrocket so I decided to put a 150 € cap on it for PSU.

 

These two came out as winners:

 

XFX 850W XXX Edition, semi modular, 80 Plus Silver

 

Silverstone 850W, Strider Plus, ATX 2.3, modulaarinen, 80 Plus Silver

 

Both have great reviews but I might go for the Silverstone because of the size. It would allow me to put a bottom fan in my case. I don't care for modularity but why not.

 

Only running the CPU at 3.2 GHz and won't OC until I get a new cooler. Propably will get an SSD before that and only then will overclock both CPU and GPU.

 

Do you think the +80 ratings make a differense that's worth paying for if you get a quality PSU anyway? What's wrong with Bronze rating against Gold for example? Doesn't seem to differ much in performance but the price rockets!

 

It's great to hear your opinions chaps. :)

Edited August 31, 2012 by Griffin

[Griffin]

Why wouldn't I get any of these instead?

 

XFX 850W Core Edition, Bronze

 

Nexus 850W RX-8500, 80 Plus

 

Corsair 800W Gaming Series GS800, 80 Plus

[Bodo]

Well, Out of those I'd probably get the Corsair. I'd have to look for some info about them. I can imagine the Nexus being quite quiet out of all of em. I'm a bit non plussed with XFX after a graphics card, the 7900GT, seemed to have a tonne of problems and I think I remember correctly that XFX overclocked their card and it just couldn't handle it. Saying that, though, the PSU you've looked at gets some great reviews. It isn't modular, though, if that matters.

 

It really does end up being that you spend more for better quality components, longer warranty, modular cables...even dare I say it, looks...

 

Efficiency wise, well it is a good thing to consider where you may cut down your bills but really it ends up being more of a factor for places that use a lot of PCs running constantly. For me, where I use the PC constantly it was wiser to invest in an efficient PSU.

 

Also, well it helps save the world dunnit! :helpsmilie:

 

For example the Corsair HX850W I have has a silver rating but just achieves Gold standard efficiency. However, they couldn't give it gold because at high/er loads it's efficiency drops to just under the Gold standard. It's also very quiet, has modular cables, a 5 year warranty etc.

Here is a nice link about efficiency.

 

I pleased to have a modular PSU as it keeps cables to a minimum and therefore your case won't be packed with lots of unnecessary clutter which could mean that components get that little bit hotter due to air not circulating as well as it could. If that isn't really an issue, you have enough fans, you don't want to overclock and or just don't mind a messy computer, then non-modular cables can most of the time be tucked out of sight.

On that note, I want to replace my ageing Antec P180 for a Fractal Design R4 or a Corsair Obsidian 650D. Just not sure one deserves the money and the other is well built enough for the price..Both cases offer nice cable management and a good set of features..Anyway, I digress

 

It (the PSU) also has to support your other bits and pieces. For me the upgrade was due after getting to the peak end of my Silverstone ST56Fs power output but also because it just couldn't power my GTX560ti/GTX670, with Wattage or the correct cables, and the adapters ..well I didn't want to try that.

 

Do you need a load of molex cables hanging around doing nothing, do you need an 8pin EPS connector to allow for more stable overclocks (I don't know about this at all really but from what I understand it's for die hard overclockers, 8 pin EPS connectors are there so that as the wattage consumption of the CPU goes up the stability of power down the cable is greater at higher currents) I have no idea about this, really. 4 pin ATX or 8 pin EPS, probably not a huge difference if doing a moderate overclock or just runing at stock speeds....what else, hmm...do you need more than a couple of PCI Express connectors etc etc...

 

Anyway, out of the three you mentioned and after briefly googleing them, they all seem good. The Nexus might be getting on a bit, I think the Corsair or XFX are more recent products.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Bodo

[cichlidfan]

I can't really add anything to what Bodo said other than to agree that given the options I would probably go with the Corsair as well. It only has a three year warranty (the AX and HX have seven years) but it is still a Corsair. ;)

[Griffin]

Thanks guys for very throrough explanations and your views. While I will definately buy a quality one, I will not go for the one brand hype even though Corsair deserves it. There are several high quality brands from what I read and some newcomers that only lose in long time fame. Important is to also read reviews from known reviewers who take the components through hard tests. People have mentioned JonnyGuru several times.

 

So I might have found a winner in terms of price, reviews, efficiency and modularity. This thing seems to rock in it's price for features and efficiency!

 

Super Flower Golden Green 800W

 

Manufacturer specs

 

Review

 

The build quality seems to be great not only on this review and for this model but I cross referenced several reviews of different products and they all pass with flying colors.

 

The only thing I lose here is the future bottom fan in my case due to size of the PSU. However I can mount two fans in the front and one on the side of the case. Think I will miss the one bottom fan? Propably not a big deal but I'm thinking out loud here so you can prove me otherwise. :)

 

I'm going with this PSU and the previously mentioned HD 7870 in two weeks from now!

[Bodo]

Yeh seems like you've been doing some good research, reviews seem fine, it's efficient and modular so looks good.

 

They do an 850W version that's more efficient, don't know how much it is, though. Either way I think that looks like a decent choice, 5 year warranty which is good.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Bodo

[cichlidfan]

Sounds like a plan. As for the bottom fan, I would not worry, good airflow is important but adding a fan at the bottom instead of elsewhere is certainley not critical.

 

Good luck with it.:thumbup:

 

EDIT: You really will like having a modular PSU, once you see that big open space instead of the wad of extra cables!!

Edited September 1, 2012 by cichlidfan

[Griffin]

IDE-SATA adapter problems

 

Does anybody have experience with IDE-SATA adapters? I mentioned in THIS post that the DVD drive is not in use due to the location of my IDE hard drive = the IDE cable can't reach both the hard drive and DVD.

 

Right now I got rid of IDE cable completely with IDE/SATA adapter on my old hard drive but the DVD drive is still inoperational.

Even though a new DVD drive would cost only like 20 €, I didn't want to throw away a perfectly working drive so I bought an ATAPI/IDE - SATA adapter that's supposed to work with DVD drives. Except that it won't. I've tried all the jumper settings and without jumper, changing SATA ports, checking BIOS but it won't recognize the drive. The drive opens when the button is pressed and the adapter power LED is on.

I will try to change the SATA cable in case the one that came with adapter is broken and I'll try to change the SATA port to SATA1 which is supposed to be for the boot drive.

 

Another adapter I had already worked straight away with my hard drive when I set the master jumpers.

 

Here's the adapter and specs:

 

Serial ATA 1.0/2.0 - compatible

ATA / ATAPI PIO mode 0-4

ATA / ATAPI Ultra DMA transfer speed 16.7, 25, 33, 48, 66, 100, 133, 150, 300 Mb/s.

ATA / ATAPI LBA48 2-byte address sell

Supports Serial ATA Hot-Plug

Windows 98/SE/ME/2000/XP/Vista/7, Ubuntu

 

[Bodo]

Sell it on ebay. I had experience with an IDE/SATA adapter and it was crap so I got rid. Dunno why it's not working. Maybe make sure the jumpers are on Cable Select instead of Master / Slave. No idea. I'm about to stick an old Plextor 712A IDE DVD drive on ebay. Might sell it someone for the same cost a new SATA model would cost... ya never know! :)

[Griffin]

Got it working! The adapter has two SATA connectors. On the backside of the adapter there is text for the connectors IDE TO SATA HDD and SATA TO IDE HDD. Logically I should plug IDE TO SATA HDD if I want an IDE drive to work as SATA but it was reversed for some reason. Also set jumper to master and all is working.

[Griffin]

What did you eventually push your Q9550 to and on what VCore and cooler?

Ok now to the cooling part. I overclocked as far as I could on my old cooler (not stock) and got to 3.7 GHz @ ~1.328 V quite easily. The Vdroop under load is crazy though but it's stable. The old owner of my Q9550 lapped it so the temps are propably better because of that.

 

So I got to 70 C with Intel Burn Test and obviously I don't want to go past that.

I'm planning a second inlet fan at the front of the case (for HD cooling and positive pressure) and I've already decided it will be Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm, 1150rpm.

 

The CPU cooler is harder to choose. I've been looking all morning at comparisons and reviews. A water cooler such as Antec Kühler H2O would be awesome because of the size but the performance to noise ratio seems questionable. An air cooler would take alot of space and not sure if I have to do some arrangements with relocating fans and such to make it fit.

For example the high performance Noctua coolers would be nice but not sure about the space. Here are examples;

 

My current cooler has only 92 mm fan and it already seems close to the top fan.

 

However here someone has a big Noctua NH-D14 and it fits easily in the same case. I would be interesting to know how different are the CPU locations on our motherboards.

 

 

There's also the requirement to have it compatible with my current LGA775 and 1155 socket for future MOBO, CPU combo thus the above pictured Noctua is out of question.

 

Now the questions are;

 

- Will the Noctua NH-C14 fit? Will measure.

 

- Are the water coolers such Corsair Hydro H60 and Antec Kühler H2O 620 worth it and comparable? According to Overclockersclub they are really close but are they worth the noise? Perhaps with custom fans?

[cichlidfan]

Not only check if the N14 fits in the case but make sure it clears your memory. As far as mounting, I think they still sell mounting kits for that socket.

[Griffin]

Ok I ordered Antec Kuhler 620 for CPU cooling. Even if it's not the best of the best, I really thought it has the best bang for buck and still competes on top with even some of the best Noctua coolers. Also it looks compact and clean inside the case unlike the monstrous air coolers that would require me to rethink the fan positioning inside my case.

For it I ordered a 120 mm Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850 RPM fan because the stock fan is crap I've read.

Additional bonus is that to mount the Antec Kuhler radiator into the back 120 mm fan slot on my case, I can place the existing case fan in front.

+ two DEMCiflex magnetic filters.

 

So after nearly a year of maxing out this rig, I've got the following setup (minus Samsung 256 GB SSD I'll order next month hopefully).

 

CPU - Intel Q9550 @ 3.7 GHz (will push it as far as I can)

CPU cooler - Antec Kühler H2O 620 with 120 mm Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1850 RPM fan

MoBo - Asus P5K

GPU - Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 Windforce 2048MB

RAM - 8 GB Kingston HyperX 1066MHz DDR2

PSU - Super Flower Golden Green Modular 800W

Hard drives - 500 GB SATA + 160 GB IDE (successfully converted to SATA with DVD drive by adapters) + future SSD

Case - Fractal Design Core 3000

 

Logitech MX518 mouse

TrackIR 4

LG Flatron W2042T 20.1" screen (should upgrade someday)

 

CH Fighterstick & Pro Throttle

Saitek Rudder Pedals (planning to upgrade, hopefully to KomodoSim pedals)

 

So that means I'm almost done with the maxing out of this rig. Lets see how things go with my job and maybe in 6 months I will get the new MoBo, CPU and RAM. In the meantime really want to get new rudder pedals if budget permits.

 

Thank you all for your help so far! You've done great job in explaining me things and spent alot of your time. Great to be a member here. :)

[Griffin]

A dilemma about SSD's. Time to get one and I'm stuck with two candidates about the same price.

 

 

250 GB Samsung 840 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Series-250GB-Solid-State/dp/B009LI7C9Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1358524134&sr=1-1

 

240 GB Sandisk - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006EKJ8UI/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=computers

 

Theoretically the Samsung is slower in write but from what I've read, you won't notice this in normal use and someone said that an average user doesn't need write speeds over 250 MB/s.

Sandisk is Sandforce and that turns some people off although many say Sandforce is great these days and the bad reputation should be forgotten.

The guarantee is the same 3 years for both.

 

So basically Samsung has a better €/GB value and Sandisk has better speed.

 

Anything else?

[Erforce]

Once you get your SSD, open resources monitor, check disk activity.

Ever single process has 0(95%)-1(5%) Millisecond latency time.

And almost 0 waiting list.

So, imho, chose any SSD you want. avoid cheap OCZ version that's all i can say.

Now for speed, as they do the maths with compressed data to hit summits... you'd better save your money elsewhere.

I have personnaly a Transcend SSD320 (256G) that runs fine. got it for 140€ VAT incl. ;)

Never trust fake promotion like i see for sandisk on your link. 481£ for a 240Gb SSD is just a wet dream. maybe try looking elsewhere if you can find anything a bit cheaper in UK. ATM Your Samsung is 139€ in France, we have more Taxes and weaker money than Her Majesty's coins.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Erforce

[Griffin]

Never trust fake promotion like i see for sandisk on your link. 481£ for a 240Gb SSD is just a wet dream. maybe try looking elsewhere if you can find anything a bit cheaper in UK. ATM Your Samsung is 139€ in France, we have more Taxes and weaker money than Her Majesty's coins.

Yeah of course I don't look at the "original" price but what it is now. It's all that matters and both drives are comparable. I'd like to order from amazon as they ship free and I can include other stuff with it. :)

One thing bothers me a bit is that the Samsung is made of cheaper memory modules, thus slower speeds and supposedly should last less time. However anandtech review explains why that doesn't matter really and it should last but I'm still skeptical as it hasn't been proved in long run. :huh:

[Vlerkies]

I have a Sandisk 240gb and I have been very happy with it (my first ssd).

 

I run win7 64 off it with dcs, photo and video editing software etc etc and its blitzy.

 

Its a great drive, I am just about to buy another one.

Been using it for about 6 months so far. I have a lot of faith in Sandisk as a brand from my photography experience so trust their products and service. maybe a bit biased because of it :P

Edited January 19, 2013 by Vlerkies

[Erforce]

Did you bothered about the lifespan of your harddrives 10-20years ago 4years after you bought thoses ?

For me, although this is my first SSD, i'm sure if in 2-4 years it fails i will lol somehow. Because 120-240Gigs is ridiculous anyway. They're still warrantied and, you MUST have sensibles files on a (preferably) 3.5" hard-drive.

[Griffin]

I just ordered the Sandisk! I'm sure Samsung is great despite the "cheapo" memory type but being a couple pounds cheaper, faster and proven, I think Sandisk is a good choise. I'm a bit puzzled with sudden Amazon price increase on checkout. The initial price was £129.62 but during checkout it was suddenly £133.94 even with free delivery. Go figure. It does the same with Samsung though.

 

Erforce, I expect my hard drives to last at least 5 years for sure. :) Only had one failure and it was for an external drive. I have two internal drives, one SATA and one IDE. The IDE is the oldest and serves as a backup drive. I don't see how even my old hard drives couldn't have some use. They're great for backup, secondary internet PC etc so I would value the high life expectancy.

[Vlerkies]

Grif, in case you are unaware, when you plug the drive in set to AHCI mode in the bios.

Then instal op sys etc.

 

Google 'ssd AHCI mode' for details.

[Griffin]

Yeah I've read tutorials and will try to remember that. :) I'm a little skeptic about how will it work with my IDE drive that connects through a SATA adapter though. I've heard SSD's are still super fast even in IDE mode so in worst case scenario I might have to use that to keep my old drive as a backup.