Ancient Mayan artifacts found

[Depth]

I have a small pocket calendar book and after 31/12/11 there are ONLY blank pages... Really scary when you think about it.

 

Anyway you can buy the book I wrote about it for only £599 + shipping to read how you should be prepared. It'll ship with a small pocket calendar book.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Depth

[cichlidfan]

I have a small pocket calendar book and after 31/12/11 there are ONLY blank pages... Really scary when you think about it.

 

Anyway you can the book I wrote about it for only £599 + shipping to read how you should be prepared. It'll ship with a small pocket calendar book.

 

That's ok, my money is going into an 'air farm'! Jarred to order.:D

[Groove]

[Emmer]

[manfrez01]

Errr, Manfrez01, are you through that juxtaposition seriously suggesting that, based on that silly little tablet thing, the sumerians knew the location and position of Eris? I've seen that specific inscription used to make that claim, and I'm sorry, but it only serves to make me want to laugh and cry at the same time - laugh because it's hilarious, cry because people believe that crap and make the scam artists writing books on it rich... :P

 

Man what is your problem with me, do you think owns the truth (I do not answer) because collaborate on a forum, and discard cynically comment, friend me laugh.

I'm not arguing or saying no thesis, and as a future archaeologist I have taken with tongs every information related to some new discovery.

But yes, ancient cultures had a fairly good observational understanding of nature. They knew how to use stars to figure out which day it was. They didn't have the first clue that the stars and the sun were actually the same type of object, though, they didn't have any concept that planets were world (or indeed that the Earth was a planet) - because they didn't need to have these concepts to figure out when to plant crops, when to harvest, and when to sacrifice some virgins to the gods to make sure said harvest goes well...

This argument has no validity, simplifies the sociocultural processes on a scale that deserves no attention.

 

.yet some people happily suggest, based pretty much solely on an overactive imagination, that these civilizations observed tiny dots of light that only the invention of our best and biggest 100-million dollar observatories with computer automation and adaptive optics allowed us to find; in spite of said ancient cultures not leaving any evidence of ever making a basic lense. (Indeed, in the case of the Mayans, they barely had metalworking to speak of, with obsidian being the favourite type of blade, and only limited implementations of copper.) I mean, for goodness sake - we still have several of their "observatories" intact: they're composed of lines of stone slabs set up to line up with a given constellation (or the sun) on a given day. Now that's the type of instrument they are supposed to have found magnitude 18.7 objects? (Or well, same Sumerian tablet is often used for Planet X and Nibiru, not Eris, as well, and that one's even more funny. I love how anyone making that connection can immediately be identified as being clueless on orbital mechanics, because they have obviously not solved for the requisite orbit. Actual scientists have, and there's nothing there. If there was, you'd see it with a normal binocular right now.)

Out of context information.

This is just another scam where some people are making rediculous amounts of money selling books, movies and TV shows.

I'm not interested in those businesses.

[Depth]

This is not entirely accurate.

 

This is the NASA reports a new discovery.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2005/29jul_planetx/

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/newplanet-072905-images.html

This is the report of the Sumerians, written in cuneiform clay using a table.

 

The key to understanding is in the context.

 

But this information today gives us much to talk and are still investigating, but we can not deny that ancient man did not have a rough KNOWLEDGE of their natural world, do not forget that one of the great achievements of mankind was agriculture and this not have happened without the prior knowledge of the seasons and its relation to the stars.

 

Regards.

 

Being able to use the stars to make a calendar to tell seasons is one thing, it relies on basic observation and essentially taking notes. Finding out that there is an object in orbit in the very outer reaches of the solar system by eyeballing it and then etching that onto a stone slab?

 

Isn't it at all concievable that the stone slab is for decoration? That they did not in fact go out at night, point at the massive sky and say "Hey, isn't that a planet?"

 

Please give me the context I need to understand how this is even remotely likely.

[manfrez01]

Please give me the context I need to understand how this is even remotely likely.

 

For example, many years of study on the paradigm of the peopling of America and there are many questions.

 

Very few people, perhaps counted on the fingers of one hand could shed light on the subject maya, I think this forum my friend is not the place to evacuate your question, much less understand the meaning of a tablet without analyzing the information from its context at the time of discovery.

 

Unfortunately the answers you seek is in a field still eninvestigacion and development.

 

Sorry but I can not help more.

[sobek]

This argument has no validity, simplifies the sociocultural processes on a scale that deserves no attention.

 

Which one of those sociocultural processes exactly allowed them to find an object that cannot under any circumstance be seen with the naked eye?

[EtherealN]

Man what is your problem with me

 

I have no problem at all with you, but I do have a problem with the hilarious arguments I usually see in connection to that Sumerian illustration you used there. ;) Hence I asked what your purpose was in using it in conjunction with some old NASA links and gave my views on the most common uses. If you can't take even that level of scrutiny without getting angry, and intend to work in archaology, you'll have a very rough experience in the future. This has absolutely nothing on the level of scrutiny you'd experience in peer review. (Which, again, the users of that slab meticulously avoid.)

 

For example, are you basing your case on the "work" by the incompetent Sitchin? This is where the use of that specific illustration usually tracks to. There is a couple others that have tried to use that specific tablet as well, with hilarious results. And conspicuously - never through the peer review literature. Always through consumer books, movies, TV-shows and so on. They're fairly good at using scientific-sounding language, much like creationists, atlantis loons like Däniken and Hancock, and other such fun people, but very bad at using the actual method. (I wouldn't necessarily say they're all frauds, they might just be honestly deluded into thinking they're right, but some of the tricks, special pleadings, and manipulations of actual scientist's testimony in said TV Shows, books and movies makes me feel very very suspicious of them.)

 

For those that are not familiar: the argument relies in part on that the Sumerians were told about the solar system's makeup by aliens, thus having the sun and 11 planets in that one: our 9 (lol pluto?), the moon (lol what?) and then Planet X* which shall come into the solar system in Dec 2012 and spell doom**, yet remember that the aliens did apparently not tell them more obvious things like the facts that the Moon and the Sun are not planets, and that the earth is a planet? :) Of course, might just be Ceres, but that doesn't fit the sensation and wouldn't sell books...

 

And of course, the "sun" in that illustration may coincide with what we might draw a sun like, but it's not what the sumerians drew the sun like. It's a massive anachronism, but people like Sitchin completely ignore that because it would reduce their chances to make wads of cash off of nice stories about aliens and "ancient wisdom" etcetera.

 

*Which is sometimes said to not be a planet, but rather a Brown Dwarf.

**Yet it should be visible. If a Brown Dwarf, it should be obvious to the naked eye for the last several years, if an object the size and albedo of Eris or Pluto, it should be within Jupiter and visible to a large binocular. Anywhere else and it would have more more than solar escape velocity and not be in orbit at all. Physics is a pita sometimes.

 

Lastly, there IS actual scientific work suggesting the possibility of a companion Brown Dwarf, at roughly 1ly from the Sun, to explain certain observations regarding the kuiper and cattered disc objects. Unfortunately, the models for this are way too boring for use by the 2012ers and similars.

[manfrez01]

Which one of those sociocultural processes exactly allowed them to find an object that cannot under any circumstance be seen with the naked eye?

 

This is a trick question, because archeology is not an exact science friend

 

But I can quote Leslie A. Wite "cultural development of society is a function of controlled power and effectiveness of the tools used."

 

Today excavations in search of these tools to provide theories of knowledge are not sufficient to affirm or deny such a question, in my opinion.

 

If you want to learn about cultural processes I recommend first reading

Bock, P 1977 (Introduction to Cultural Anthropology modern)

Rossi, I and E.O 'Higgins 1981 (theory of culture and anthropological methods.

 

Regards

[manfrez01]

but I do have a problem with the hilarious arguments I usually see in connection to that Sumerian illustration you used there.

I think the hilarious here is you,...just put a comment on how we see things now, according to NASA's eye, long ago (Sumerian) had a surprising knowledge and well studied.

Hence I asked what your purpose was in using it in conjunction with some old NASA links and gave my views on the most common uses. If you can't take even that level of scrutiny without getting angry, and intend to work in archaology, you'll have a very rough experience in the future.

I study books older than your friend, and are not valid?

Look I'm not angry, if that is your purpose, but I take my job very seriously.

[EtherealN]

Today excavations in search of these tools to provide theories of knowledge are not sufficient to affirm or deny such a question, in my opinion.

 

Wait, so a couple drawings get interpreted as a prehistoric culture having a certain piece of astronomical knowledge, but we have no clue how they'd have the knowledge, and so far archaology has not found anything at all relating to it... ...

 

...and thus it's "not sufficient" to "affirm or deny"?

 

Sorry, but that's not how science works. If you make the claim that culture X knew about object Y, you present evidence. "We don't have the evidence yet" is not good enough. Until such a time as you find your evidence, the Null Hypothesis wins on walkover! Further, as you yourself note in your language - "to provide theories" (though I don't know if this is what you meant) - there isn't enough to this yet to even make up a theory. You need to have a solid prediction in order to get yourself a theory, but so this is still on the hypothesis level? I mean, read what you pretty much said there: "we have no evidence yet and we are looking for a way to create a theory"...

[EtherealN]

just put a comment on how we see things now, according to NASA's eye, long ago (Sumerian) had a surprising knowledge and well studied.

 

Okey, let's get this clear: so you are claiming that the Sumerians knew about Eris?

[sobek]

If you want to learn about cultural processes I recommend first reading

Bock, P 1977 (Introduction to Cultural Anthropology modern)

Rossi, I and E.O 'Higgins 1981 (theory of culture and anthropological methods.

 

Ok, if you want to learn about signal processing, start with Discrete Time Signal Processing by Oppenheim&Schaefer.

 

How does any of this apply to the argument at hand?

 

This is a trick question, because archeology is not an exact science friend

 

Maybe not, but it is still a science, which means that its theories that are considered approved by most peers are the ones that actually answer most if not all questions that arise in a stringent and plausible way, instead of zig-zagging around them all over the place.

Edited December 29, 2011 by sobek

[EtherealN]

instead of zig-zagging around them all over the place.

 

I watched a submarine movie yesterday (The Sinking of Laconia) and I just got an awesome mental image on the proverbial Road to Publication - scientist ship zig-zagging between the endless swarms of torpedoes launched by the wolfpack of peers. :D

 

(Can't rep you either. :( )

[sobek]

(Can't rep you either. :( )

 

Ye olde chit chat dilemma :)

 

Edit:

This

I watched a submarine movie yesterday (The Sinking of Laconia) and I just got an awesome mental image on the proverbial Road to Publication - scientist ship zig-zagging between the endless swarms of torpedoes launched by the wolfpack of peers.

in turn reminded me of

 

 

although this is going a bit far OT. ;)

Edited December 29, 2011 by sobek

[EtherealN]

Ye olde chit chat dilemma :)

 

Not only that, I have to spread first too. :P I don't use the rep buttons enough, apparently. :P

[firestick22]

I wonder if this is going to affect future installments by DCS. I sure am looking forward to the next one :)

[Jona33]

Well we'll get four of the items but I'm not sure about DCS fighter. Taking that away would be a cruel punishment. :D

[manfrez01]

EL señor de Pakal

:pilotfly:?

Maybe throw some light on the subject someday.

[EtherealN]

Q: What is the Palenque Astronaut?

A: The monuments of the Mayan civilisations, Inca and Aztec, have been built in their majority by extraterrestrials, in the same way like those Aliens from Orion 3 built the Pyramids of Egypt. What it is necessary to find out since I have not the fact at this time. It is what alien race collaborated with those three civilisations.

 

Their disappearance was due to the alien abduction and to colonize other planets. I confirm it to you. The extraterrestrial intervention in the Mayan, Inca and Aztec civilisations is logical, because it’s not acceptable that a supposedly advanced civilisation, able to build so many marvels, was capable at the same time of sacrificing maidens to appease to the "god of the volcano." The only valid explanation is that on one hand there were advanced extraterrestrials and on the other hand there were the primitive inhabitants who were those that truly practised those sacrifices.

In the same way, the Egyptians also made human sacrifices, but it would be illogical attribute to them the construction of the pyramids.

 

keep this crap to yourself or people will think you're crazy!

 

So funny I can't stop laughing. :D

 

But well, okey, so we've got some von Däniken action going on here then. Funs. :)

Just a shame people know how to read what's written there, and it's not a depiction of a space shuttle, it's someone in the tree of life, a fitting illustration for a tomb, don't you think? (I'm slightly rusty, been a while, might have been the tree of the world as well.)

 

I mean, seriously now manfrez, your theory is that the sumerian thing is actually evidence that the sumerians knew about Eris, and the Palenque Astronaut is a mayan space shuttle?

[cichlidfan]

So funny I can't stop laughing. :D

 

Must be aliens. The same race creating the cell phone and the Ultimate Fighting Championship? ;)

[Depth]

To be fair, if the great pyramid really was built in 22 years, they would have to have placed one rock every 9th second, day and night.

[EtherealN]

To be fair, if the great pyramid really was built in 22 years, they would have to have placed one rock every 9th second, day and night.

 

Mathematics fail. ;)

 

31 556 926 seconds per year.

Times 22 for 22 years: 694 252 372 seconds elapsed during construction.

 

Roughly 2.3 million stone blocks.

694 252 372 / 2 300 000 = 301,8 seconds per block

 

Thus, an average pace of 1 block per 5 minutes. This is certainly an impressive pace, but does not require magic, all you need is a lot of labor (they had that), good architects (they had that), good buerocracy (they had that), and good skilled leadership (they had that).

 

WE today would most likely not be able to achieve this, but this is nothing strange. First of all, we are not prepared to dedicate a huge portion of our economy towards building random stone buildings. Secondly, since it was a long time since we used stone as the principal building material for huge construction projects like a Giza pyramid, there is no people left that have the skillset required. Nothing weird there - the same thing applies for landing on the moon; it's not that long since we went there, but already we'd have to re-do a lot of the relevant research and engineering required towards landing on the moon simply because we haven't used the skills, the people who had the skills have gone into other businesses or even died (thus failing to keep them current), etcetera etcetera.

 

Even more dramatic example was an article I read that basically stated that even if Amazon wanted to have the Kindle manufactured within the USA, this would be impossible. Not just economically unfeasible - impossible. All the relevant industries for a lot of the components, and all the competence required to operate those industries, is nowhere to be found in the USA anymore - it's all in China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Thailand etcetera etcetera. That happened in roughly a decade.

 

...yet when it comes to big buildings, using materials we have long since abandoned, people have this habit of deciding "well I don't know how they did it, so it must have been aliens..." Which is hilariously narrowminded. :D

[Total]

We also could not build another Iowa class battleship. Many of the pieces of those ships were forged on site and pretty much all of that tooling has long since disappeared. The ability to join and weld 16" thick steel plates is also a skill that has died off.

 

When they brought them out of mothball the last time, they had to find people who were still alive who could teach others how to operate the main guns.

 

If we don't use it - we lose it.

 

As far as 12/21/12, if you are convinced the end of the world will occur, then please send me all of your worldly belongings and financial holdings on 12/20/12. If you perish in the end day and I somehow survive, then I will use the belongings to survive and to barter with. The financial holding will help fund the party I will throw on the last eve of civilization.

 

In the event the end of the world does not occur, I will provide you with a cardboard sign that reads:

 

"Homeless due to buying into internet sensationalism. Will trade rumors and speculation for food."

 

:D