Finding targets and objectives

[Ice30]

Hi, I'm new to the forum and the DCS series. I recently got the A-10C Warthog simulator, its been one of my favorite aircraft and I have been absolutely enthralled with the whole experience.

 

I'm still pretty new, however i'm getting a handle on the TGP and EGI systems and I know how to create a SPI at a desired location and survey the area using the TPG using black hot and white hot. I know how to use the HUD and creating a SPI using the HUD and then using all sensors to SPI to find targets that way too.

 

However, my issue is this, even with having labels turned on and having a mission that has a waypoint showing where the targets generally are, I still struggle finding targets. I can do it, with perhaps 2 or 3 long passes scanning areas and setting up an attack run, which kind of feels completely wrong, like i'm missing something. I tried with labels off and it felt like I was trying to find a needle in a haystack, I went out of range of the area so many times trying to find targets until I got bored and turned the labels back on. I know it shouldn't be this hard.

 

I began to wonder what issue it might be, should I be using my CDU better? I noticed my fellow ground forces and wingman tend to spot things from a mile away (or is that just me?) and they announce locations. However, I am not sure how to program them into my CDU so that I can display them on my TAD. Also if I locate a target, is there a way of tracking that target on my TAD when it's moving. I am easily able to create a mark using my TGP or creating a SPI, but when i create a mark on the target it only does it at that location at that moment, as in it doesnt track it. I have difficult relating locations displayed on my TGP to where I am aswell, this is a major issue for me too.

 

Sorry for the wall of text! Thanks for any help.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi and welcome to the crazy world of DCS A-10!

 

I was the same when I first started, you soon get used to using all of the electronics availible for searching for your enemy.

 

The best thing I have found is the mk 1 eyeball, take your head out of the screen and take a look out of the window ! Having headtracking was the game changer for me. :)

 

 

I am sure many will post with ideas for you as well :)

[GGTharos]

I'm still pretty new, however i'm getting a handle on the TGP and EGI systems and I know how to create a SPI at a desired location and survey the area using the TPG using black hot and white hot. I know how to use the HUD and creating a SPI using the HUD and then using all sensors to SPI to find targets that way too.

 

You can drop a markpoint on your TAD as well.

 

I can do it, with perhaps 2 or 3 long passes scanning areas and setting up an attack run, which kind of feels completely wrong, like i'm missing something. I tried with labels off and it felt like I was trying to find a needle in a haystack, I went out of range of the area so many times trying to find targets until I got bored and turned the labels back on. I know it shouldn't be this hard.

 

Yes, it should be. This isn't a reproduction of a holywood movie. Maybe you're looking in the wrong spot, but generally speaking that's all there is to it - look in the right place. If you don't know where the right place is, then them's the breaks.

 

I began to wonder what issue it might be, should I be using my CDU better? I noticed my fellow ground forces and wingman tend to spot things from a mile away (or is that just me?) and they announce locations. However, I am not sure how to program them into my CDU so that I can display them on my TAD.

 

There's plenty of threads here regarding this. Use the search function and you'll find answers to this question :)

 

Also if I locate a target, is there a way of tracking that target on my TAD when it's moving. I am easily able to create a mark using my TGP or creating a SPI, but when i create a mark on the target it only does it at that location at that moment, as in it doesnt track it.

 

There's absolutely no reason why your navigation system (After all, that's where your TAD gets its data, plus the TGP and datalinks - but essentially all it knows is a bunch of coordinates) should have any ability to track a moving target that is not being somehow tracked either by your own, or off-board sensors.

 

I have difficult relating locations displayed on my TGP to where I am aswell, this is a major issue for me too.

 

Practice makes perfect, but then again your TGP presents its diamond on the TAD, so orienting yourself shouldn't be too hard ... the TGP also has an 'I'm looking in that direction' cue.

[Ice30]

Hehe Mk1 eyeball :P I guess to use that I might need a better PC with better resolution hehe. I'm considering TrackIR5 and getting 3 monitors. Would this be a good option? (of course with a good system behind it, just wondering about usability of TrackIR5 with 3 monitors for the A-10c DCS)

[GGTharos]

You're not going to spot targets with the naked eye in most cases. The point is that flying is visual. You fly with respect to things that you can see around you ... you don't stay glued to the HuD/MFCDs, which is what the majority of sim pilots do, at least at first. Very, very bad habit.

 

The TIR is going to be fine ... the 3 monitors ... *shrug*. If you have the money to burn.

[Ice30]

Yes, it should be. This isn't a reproduction of a holywood movie. Maybe you're looking in the wrong spot, but generally speaking that's all there is to it - look in the right place. If you don't know where the right place is, then them's the breaks.

 

But the thing is i'm not, i'm looking at the attack waypoint area. For example I was doing the first mission in the campaign and I was struggling to locate the artillery I was supposed to bomb, i was still, however able to find enemy units. But attacking them felt like I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. I know this is a real simulation, that's why i'm interested in learning, my question is how would a pilot locate the objective target given such general coordinates?

 

 

There's plenty of threads here regarding this. Use the search function and you'll find answers to this question :)

Cool I will have a browse, i looked for a bit but maybe not hard enough :P

 

 

There's absolutely no reason why your navigation system (After all, that's where your TAD gets its data, plus the TGP and datalinks - but essentially all it knows is a bunch of coordinates) should have any ability to track a moving target that is not being somehow tracked either by your own, or off-board sensors.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, if I am tracking a target using my TGP can I create that as a waypoint that will stick to that target until it goes out of range, so that way I can go to it's last known coordinates?

[Eddie]

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, if I am tracking a target using my TGP can I create that as a waypoint that will stick to that target until it goes out of range, so that way I can go to it's last known coordinates?

 

No. A waypoint is a set of coordinates, and coordinates are just a position on a map.

 

If you're tracking a target in the TGP, you've spotted it, so why would you need anything else anyway?

[CAT_101st]

+1 on the MK1 eyeball. As a A-10 pilot you have to get your head off the dash. They are their to help you spot the genrel area to start looking for the target.

[BIGNEWY]

The best way to learn this stuff is from reading the manual, watching You tube tutorials, and the best one in my opinion is flying online with one of the on-line squads.

 

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Virtual_Squadrons_and_Regiments

 

what ever you do have fun doing it :)

[GGTharos]

But the thing is i'm not, i'm looking at the attack waypoint area. For example I was doing the first mission in the campaign and I was struggling to locate the artillery I was supposed to bomb, i was still, however able to find enemy units. But attacking them felt like I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. I know this is a real simulation, that's why i'm interested in learning, my question is how would a pilot locate the objective target given such general coordinates?

 

The pilot has to look around, just like you have to. Their TGP might make the targets 'pop out' a bit better than the one in the sim though. Keep your distance to make things easier.

 

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, if I am tracking a target using my TGP can I create that as a waypoint that will stick to that target until it goes out of range, so that way I can go to it's last known coordinates?

 

Again, why would a waypoint have any clue whatsoever (to paraphrase things, I guess) as to what a moving vehicle is doing? A WP is nothing but a set of coordinates. Its purpose is navigation, not target tracking. Your TGP tracks targets - so just continue the tracking with TGP. If the target goes out of range, you can drop a markpoint where he vanished and resume the search from there.

 

In addition, you can spot the ground features of where the target is with your mk1 eyeball, and fly there if/when he vanishes.

[Ice30]

The reason I prefer having something on my TAD rather than my TGP is because I find the waypoint or mark point easier to understand than a TGP SPI, because when a target goes out of range on the TGP the scanner starts moving away from the last known point.

 

I suppose the best way to increase my awareness is using TrackIR and getting a higher resolution and bigger screen :) Plus a load of practice.

[GGTharos]

Again, higher resolution won't have you spotting targets visually. Just FYI.

[Ice30]

It will help me relate things i see with my targetting pod to things i see out of the window though. At this stage I struggle to see anything that relates to what I see up in the air besides rivers and a general town area

[BIGNEWY]

I think many of us who like to look out of the window do it because we are looking for combat indicators i.e

 

dust trails, smoke trails, muzzle flashes, tracer fire and so on

 

Having headtracking will help in this area :)

[Ice30]

Yeah, cheers bignewy. I know I still got a lot of flight hours to gain but it's good to know how not to bang your head against the wall with something that is going to make things harder, such as no trackIR and bad screen resolution.

 

Is there somewhere i could look to help me identify different types of buildings\vehicles by their silhouette on the TGP?

[Jona33]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=81118&highlight=Target+Recognition+mission

[Ice30]

^ Thanks, this seems a little difficult to someone as new as myself however, is there somewhere where there is screen captures of typical silhouettes? Or something that I can study before I try and throw myself in the deep end?

[Eddie]

Try the encyclopeadia in the sim.

[Ice30]

Thanks I will, at this point i'm trying to get through all the information provided, but it's like going through an entire training module. Its helpful to know where to locate specific things that help me with the basics

 

BTW Eddie, my parents were from lincoln and told me about the a-10s that flew over at low altitude during the cold war period, apparently I hated it when I was young, god what was wrong with me? :) I'm Australian now though.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Ice30

[aces_full85]

It's going to be extremely hard to visually pick up a tank from 10k+ feet, even with using the zoom so don't expect to suddenly develop eagle eye vision!

 

For starters, you really want to avoid overflying your target. Make sure you're scanning at stand off range (as far away as you can manage, maybe 10nm?) and from at least 12k agl. Give yourself plenty of space and time to find the target before you're ever in danger of being shot at or overshooting.

 

Once you know where you're looking, the only thing left to do is start a patient and methodical search for your targets. It'll help to find a landmark in the general vicinity (such as a road or building) then use it as a reference point to scan left/right while progressively working your way up and down. It might also help to cycle from WHOT to BHOT frequently to help snag any low contrast vehicles. Scanning in a set pattern like this will help be sure that you're completely covering the area you’re supposed to search and makes sure you aren’t overlooking anything.

 

Once you finally locate a target, don’t forget that he probably has friends in a formation around him. It’s unlikely that you’ll stumble across a random vehicle just sitting by itself (unless it’s a zeus or SAM or something), so take your time and whack the rest of his buddies too.

Edited April 5, 2012 by aces_full85

[Harzach]

...just wondering about usability of TrackIR5 with 3 monitors for the A-10c DCS...

 

My 2 pennies on this:

 

As long as your basic hardware can run the sim smoothly, no peripheral will add more to your sim experience than TrackIR. A good HOTAS system is a close second.

 

I work from home, and need all four of my screens for that. However, I quickly found that using an ultra-wide display resolution (via Eyefinity) did not add enough to the experience to offset the frames I was losing. If you can get yourself set up with one high-quality monitor (I'd recommend 27" or better - my next upgrade :music_whistling:), you'll not be missing anything.

 

Unless you are building a sim pit, stick to one main display, and maybe a second touch display for use with Helios once you've settled into the sim.

 

Good luck and have fun!