GER Tornado vs. UK Tornado in a SEAD scenario

[xxJohnxx]

Hi,

 

Today I was testing something and I started to notice a strange behaviour of the AI:

While the UK Tornado, equipped with 2 ALARMs, 2 fueltanks and some other stuff engages a SA-11 Battery just fine, a German Tornado, equipped with 2 AGM-88s, 2 fueltanks and some other stuff just goes crazy. :doh:

The German Tornado just changes his course and flies away from his route, away from the land and away from the SA-11 battery. It looks like he want's to fly back to Germany. :lol:

 

I have attached two missions, one of the UK Tornado doing his job, and one of the German Tornado flying nowhere. The only diffrences between both missions is the country, type of Tornado and ARM type. Skip forward to minute 11 or 12, there the Tornado should theoretically start the attack.

 

I tought it could be the fault of the AGM-88, however an F16C with AGM-88s destroyed the battery.

 

Maybe someone can look into this, as it seems to be a bug. :smilewink:

 

Thanks!

 

John

UKTornado.miz

GERTornado.miz

[badger66]

You sure the German Tornado isnt in fact an Italian Tornado ?

[xxJohnxx]

Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean.

I am not talking about who has build that Tornado, I just wanted to point out that a German SEAD flight using a Tornado fails to do his job, while an UK SEAD flight using a Tornado does what he should do.

[Grimes]

Uhm, that is strange. I'll take a look into it.

[Gecko6]

I have been doing AI SEAD packages out ahead of the Hogs and I have yet to see them launch a AGM88. They will shot both Mavs and then bail as you describe. Seems that it might be the HARMs.

[joey45]

Looks like you need the British again.....:D

[Corrigan]

So many jokes to make. Must... resist... :D

[Ali Fish]

Looks like you need the British again.....:D

 

well said !:music_whistling:

[xxJohnxx]

I did another test, this time with an Italian Tornado. It performed like the German one.

So I think it depends on the type of Tornado. While the Germands and the Italians have the Tornado IDS, the Brithish have the Tornado GR4.

[joey45]

So many jokes to make. Must... resist... :D

 

Give in to the Darkside..;)

 

I thought the IDS was capable to do SEAD??

[xxJohnxx]

I thought the IDS was capable to do SEAD??

 

At least not in DCS World, altought equipped with AGM-88s.

[zzzspace]

Today I was testing something and I started to notice a strange behaviour of the AI:

While the UK Tornado, equipped with 2 ALARMs, 2 fueltanks and some other stuff engages a SA-11 Battery just fine, a German Tornado, equipped with 2 AGM-88s, 2 fueltanks and some other stuff just goes crazy. :doh:

The German Tornado just changes his course and flies away from his route, away from the land and away from the SA-11 battery. It looks like he want's to fly back to Germany. :lol:

 

 

I haven't looked at your track files but I just did a quick test with three German IDS Tornados set for SEAD with HARMs, smash an EWR and Buk battery, in very short order. No odd behaviours noticed, and the HARMS were used very aggressively and effectively. Ai was set to Random.

 

So it is not the HARM, nor the aircraft, or the combination of them.

[zzzspace]

ACMI shows German IDS Tornados launching HARMs

[xxJohnxx]

I never wanted to say (okay, the first post on this page sounds like that, sorry!), that the Tornado IDS won't shoot HARMS, however I wanted to point out that they don't shoot HARMS in the mission I uploaded. Whichever reason this has, there seems to be a little bug somewhere, as the Tornado GR4 performs well in the same mission under the same conditions.

[xxJohnxx]

I think I have found the problem!

I created a little test mission, where the German Tornado performed well against a BUK M1 site. I wondered what was diffrent to my mission, I uploaded earlier here, and found the solution. It is the daytime.

While the Tornado IDS performs well at noon, it doesn't so at 4 o'clock in the morning. I have uploaded two test missions for reference.

 

Hopfully somebody will fix this. :thumbup:

 

I hope that helps,

best regards,

 

John

 

EDIT: It seems to start working somwhere between 4:15 and 4:30 am at the default date. It looks like the "virutal" sunrise beginns between those two times that date, as at 4:30 it seems to be a tick brighter.

GERTornadoDay.miz

GERTornadoNight.miz

Edited August 16, 2012 by xxJohnxx

[badger66]

Sorry, but I am not sure what you mean

 

It was an old joke , like about Italian tanks in world war 2 . they had 1 forward gear and 17 reverse ..... I was trying to say that if the Tornado did a runner , quite possibily it was Italian , as the Germans were not known for retreat !!!

[xxJohnxx]

Oh, that makes a lot more sense :megalol: I didn't got that yoke intially, just left me confused first. :music_whistling:

[zzzspace]

I think I have found the problem!

I created a little test mission, where the German Tornado performed well against a BUK M1 site. I wondered what was diffrent to my mission, I uploaded earlier here, and found the solution. It is the daytime.

While the Tornado IDS performs well at noon, it doesn't so at 4 o'clock in the morning. I have uploaded two test missions for reference.

 

Hopfully somebody will fix this. :thumbup:

 

I hope that helps,

best regards,

 

John

 

EDIT: It seems to start working somwhere between 4:15 and 4:30 am at the default date. It looks like the "virutal" sunrise beginns between those two times that date, as at 4:30 it seems to be a tick brighter.

 

 

Sorry John, that's not it either, I launched the same test mission at 4AM, and the missiles were in the air by 4:04AM, and the EWR and Buk system were dead seconds later.

[xxJohnxx]

Hmm, can you may give it a try with a ramp start for the Tornado?

And are you using the default date?

[zzzspace]

Yes, default date, I'll try a ramp start from 3:30AM and come back.

[zzzspace]

Yeah, that's it, ramp start screwed up the navigation, so it flys to the wrong waypoint co-ordinates, by the look of things.

 

It ignored the usual waypoints, and passed through radar coverage of active SA-11, SA-15 and SA-19s, ignored them, and headed off out to sea, at the correct altitude, but towards 291 degrees, and 331 knots. Should have been doing 420 knots.

 

Nothing like the mission plan. Like you said, headed back to Germany.

 

Looks sort of like the nav has gone chasing after a UTM 137T coordinate, instead of 138T.

 

 

Congrats! ... so now YOU have to test all the jets, to find out if they're all doing it. Have fun! :D

Edited August 16, 2012 by zzzspace

[xxJohnxx]

Thanks for confirming the bug zzzspace, hopfully ED will fix it! ;)

[zzzspace]

Thanks for confirming the bug zzzspace, hopfully ED will fix it! ;)

 

 

What you wrote above, print it out, laminate it, stick it to the wall, and get on with the rest of your life. ;) :D

 

You'll thank me in ten years.

 

have fun johno

[Niehorst]

You sure the German Tornado isnt in fact an Italian Tornado ?

 

...must have been! :megalol: