Depresible piper

[Dave317]

What does it do? I can move it up and down but what is the point of it?

[159th_Viper]

Here's one:

 

Set the depressible pipper to 41 mils and it's lined up with the TGP LOS in Air to Air mode, thus making your life much easier seeking and locking aerial targets - a sort of rudimentary sight, if you will, enabling you to slave your AIM-9's to target once locked with your TGP and thus enabling off-boresight engagements with said sidewinders.

[Eddie]

It is used for manual weapon employment.

 

These days it is backup sighting system used in the case of the failure of the IFFCC and/or operating in HARS.

 

In the early A-10A models (prior to LASTE etc) it was the primary sighting system available to the pilot for free fall munitions, rockets and the gun.

 

Today pilots still train to use it, but obviously CCIP and CCRP have replaced its function and it it simply a manual backup.

[BlueRidgeDx]

And, since all the important reasons have already been covered, it's also used to help boresight the Maverick seeker.

 

Before the A-10C upgrade gave the jet a TDC, it was also used as the LOS reference for taking Offset Marks, for CCRP target designation, and for INS HUD Updates.

[vCUJOv]

I use it for pitch reference in normal flight condition/navigation. I center it with my ADI or 0 line on the HUD ladder. and use it as my 10 deg for take off pitch etc.... I wonder why there is no default pitch reference in the HUD like the gun cross in F16.

[Dave317]

Great, thanks for the answers.

[Echo38]

I wonder why there is no default pitch reference in the HUD like the gun cross in F16.

 

The A-10's gun boresight line is ~2 degrees lower than the aircraft boresight line (to help compensate for recoil, I think), which is why there needs to be two different boresight pippers. As for why the HUD usually only displays one or the other, this was probably done to minimize HUD clutter when aiming.

 

What does it do? I can move it up and down but what is the point of it?

 

I use it for air-to-air gunnery with the cannon. I actually use the standby HUD mode (labelled HUD MODE STBY on the armament panel, or STBY HUDMODE if you want to search it in the DCS manual PDF). In order to have the depressible pipper actually aligned with the gun boresight, you need to depress the pipper 34 mils. You can determine this value using the following method: when on the ground and in NORM HUD MODE (be careful about this; there's currently a bug with it which can mess up your HUD for the remainder of the mission--see here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93568), turn the Master Arm on and tap the Master Mode button until you get the tiny cross instead of the dotted circle. Make a reference of where that cross is (e.g. a line on the runway in front of you), when switch to STBY and push the DEPR button until the standby pipper is aligned. Switch HUD MODE back to NORM and if the little cross is now in the exact same place as the STBY dot (in the middle of the large solid circle), you did it right. That's the method for finding the 34-unit figure--if you don't want to verify for yourself, you can simply take my word for it that 34 short clicks down from 0 is the same location as the little cross. : )

 

The reason I use the STBY depressible pipper is that there is absolutely no HUD clutter. When I lead a target in a dogfight, I'm looking at the target and not the pipper. This is even true when I fire. I focus on the target, and I see the pipper out of the corner of my eye (so to speak--it isn't that far away even when leading at high speeds and deflections). If the HUD is cluttered, e.g. air-to-air mode (all those dots around the pipper, and the HUD ladder, oh my!), then I can't very well see the pipper out of the corner of my eye. Hence STBY mode. But, as I said, STBY mode by default has the pipper elevated to aircraft boresight and not gun boresight. So, depress it 34 units for gunnery, and don't forget to reset it back to 0 later if you're going to use it as a landing reference (even if you switch to the normal HUD mode--depressible pipper position is the same between NORM and STBY).

 

I've created a video demonstrating the entire process. Here's a link:

Edited September 2, 2012 by Echo38

[BlueRidgeDx]

In standby mode, there is a 3:1 compression factor on the depression value. To get he same reference as 34 mils in GUNS, you'd have to crank the standby pipper to 102 mils.

[Echo38]

In standby mode, there is a 3:1 compression factor on the depression value. To get he same reference as 34 mils in GUNS, you'd have to crank the standby pipper to 102 mils.

 

Thanks--so what do I call these units on the STBY mode? Triple-mils? If I read you aright, the 10-unit mark on STBY mode is actually 30 mils?

 

Also, is there any practical way with the HUD of using a more sensible decimal of degrees than mils (a mil being, according to my dictionary, 0.05625 degrees, which is rather unwieldy)?

Edited August 31, 2012 by Echo38

[vCUJOv]

The A-10's gun boresight line is ~2 degrees lower than the aircraft boresight line (to help compensate for recoil, I think), which is why there needs to be two different boresight pippers. As for why the HUD usually only displays one or the other, this was probably done to minimize HUD clutter when aiming.

 

 

 

I use it for air-to-air gunnery with the cannon. I actually use the standby HUD mode (labelled HUD MODE STBY on the armament panel, or STBY HUDMODE if you want to search it in the DCS manual PDF). In order to have the depressible pipper actually aligned with the gun boresight, you need to depress the pipper 34 units (mils? [edit: evidently not mils--see next post]). You can determine this value using the following method: when on the ground and in NORM HUD MODE (be careful about this; there's currently a bug with it which can mess up your HUD for the remainder of the mission--see here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93568), tap the Master Mode button until you get the tiny cross instead of the dotted circle. Make a reference of where that cross is (e.g. a line on the runway in front of you), when switch to STBY and push the DEPR button until the standby pipper is aligned. Switch HUD MODE back to NORM and if the little cross is now in the exact same place as the STBY dot (in the middle of the large solid circle), you did it right. That's the method for finding the 34-unit figure--if you don't want to verify for yourself, you can simply take my word for it that 34 short clicks down from 0 is the same location as the little cross. : )

 

The reason I use the STBY depressible pipper is that there is absolutely no HUD clutter. When I lead a target in a dogfight, I'm looking at the target and not the pipper. This is even true when I fire. I focus on the target, and I see the pipper out of the corner of my eye (so to speak--it isn't that far away even when leading at high speeds and deflections). If the HUD is cluttered, e.g. air-to-air mode (all those dots around the pipper, and the HUD ladder, oh my!), then I can't very well see the pipper out of the corner of my eye. Hence STBY mode. But, as I said, STBY mode by default has the pipper elevated to aircraft boresight and not gun boresight. So, depress it 34 units for gunnery, and don't forget to reset it back to 0 later if you're going to use it as a landing reference (even if you switch to the normal HUD mode--depressible pipper position is the same between NORM and STBY).

 

I hope this helps. If necessary, I can probably make a video of the procedure and upload it to Youtube, although it might take me a few days to work up the ambition.

 

It would be great if you could do that.

[Echo38]

I've already recorded it. : D

It's going to take me a few hours to get it fully captioned and uploaded to Youtube.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Yep, it's mils which is 1/1000th of a radian. There's no practical value in converting to degrees, since everything to do with bombing and gunnery is defined with mils. The depressible pipper is only really there for bombing/gunnery, so it's not as handy for other uses.

[Echo38]

So, I guess, in my video, I should just say "34 clicks down"? Or maybe "34 triple-mils down." Hrm.

[BlueRidgeDx]

It depends. If the depressible pipper in the normal HUD modes requires 34 mils to be where you want it, then in standby mode, it will need to be set to 102 mils. You still say mils, either way.

 

If the standby pipper reads 34 mils, then in normal mode, the depressible pipper would only show 11ish mils.

[Echo38]

Blue, you sure that hasn't been changed in a patch? I'm reading the same values for the NORM and STBY modes. 10 units down on normal is 10 units down on standby, and the depressible pipper is matched between both modes. 20 = 20, 30 = 30, etc. Can you open the sim and confirm?

 

vCUJOv, the video should be done tomorrow. I've run into quite a bit of trouble with the timing of the angles and captions, and had to reshoot several times.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Echo38

[BlueRidgeDx]

Ugh, I'm wrong about the depression value for the Standby Pipper. I was thinking of HARS, not the Standby mode.

 

Thats what i get for posting while i was grilling out. Sorry if I slowed you down. Let this be a lesson...don't post and grill!

[vCUJOv]

Blue, you sure that hasn't been changed in a patch? I'm reading the same values for the NORM and STBY modes. 10 units down on normal is 10 units down on standby, and the depressible pipper is matched between both modes. 20 = 20, 30 = 30, etc. Can you open the sim and confirm?

 

vCUJOv, the video should be done tomorrow. I've run into quite a bit of trouble with the timing of the angles and captions, and had to reshoot several times.

 

Thanx Echo

[Bushmanni]

Also, is there any practical way with the HUD of using a more sensible decimal of degrees than mils (a mil being, according to my dictionary, 0.05625 degrees, which is rather unwieldy)?

 

Mils are used for all kinds of gunnery because they are very handy for that because they are approximately 1/1000th of 2 * pi ie. full circle is 6000-6400 units depending on the mil system used (different versions used in different countries). This means it's very easy to do calculations with objects distance, angular size and physical size. If you know two you can easily calculate the third. An object which angular size is one mil is 1000 * physical size amount of distance away from observer, ie. 1 meter wide object would be 1000m away. With mils it's possible to do these calculations quickly without calculator and possibly in the head with some practice as there's very easily comprehended relation between angular and physical size and distance.

[Echo38]

Here is a link to the demonstration video:

 

I'm also working on a much simpler "TL;DR" version, which I will upload soon.

[Echo38]

I've finished and uploaded the TL;DR version, and I've improved the annotations on the original as well. Here's the TL;DR link: