Ракеты в DCS

[Chizh]

Преимущества ГДУ проявляются на малых скоростях.

Физика катапультирования ракета в процессе переделки.

[okopanja]

11 hours ago, Grem said:

У кого аим120 тот и первый ;D абсолютно ничего не решают эти секунды.

AIM-120C is clearly superior in DCS and likely IRL compared to base R-77, but I think you got this wrong: every second matters since it translates into traveled distance and reduced time to impact.

1000 km/h => 277 m/s

1200 km/h => 333 m/s

1500 km/h => 416 m/s

If there is an evidence as suggested in video that the missile activates faster, why not?

Edited April 4, 2023 by okopanja

[algrab]

47 минут назад, okopanja сказал:

AIM-120C is clearly superior in DCS and likely IRL compared to base R-77, but I think you got this wrong: every second matters since it translates into traveled distance and reduced time to impact.

1000 km/h => 277 m/s

1200 km/h => 333 m/s

1500 km/h => 416 m/s

If there is an evidence as suggested in video that the missile activates faster, why not?

 

Exactly.

2 часа назад, Chizh сказал:

Преимущества ГДУ проявляются на малых скоростях.

Как бы его увидеть-то в игре, так сказать осязать? Пробую так и этак, не вижу. Скорости до М 0,8 отнюдь не малые, это и есть скорости ведения маневренного воздушного боя, больше только для киборгов в кабине. Ну и вообще для четвертого поколения навряд ли все атаки начинаются на запредельном сверхзвуке, каком-нибудь М 1,2, тут можно глянуть на выкладываемые МО незамазанные ИЛСы Су-35. На бОльших скоростях все равно ГДУ как еще одна сила в дополнение к рулям будет разворачивать ракету интенсивнее, делая возможным стрельбу без потери цели головкой при больших углах визирования, разумеется, все зависит и от общей способности ракеты выдерживать перегрузки.

[Grem]

Т.е никто не учитывает что у р77 дальность пуска меньше чем у амраам'а? И ограничения по перегрузке и их скорость тоже не сравнивается, ага. Тут как бы одной секундой при пуске сыт не будешь, но я совсем не против если это будет работать как в реальной жизни, конечно же, если в реальной жизни ракета стартует быстрей, пожалуйста, но импакт в контексте нашего симулятора от этого весьма преувеличен. Особенно когда у нас всего лишь один недалёкий миг носит эти ракеты против скольких, трёх у противника? Четвёртый модуль на подходе.

[Chizh]

В 04.04.2023 в 11:20, algrab сказал:

Точно.

Как бы его увидеть-то в игре, так сказать осязать? Пробую так и этак, не вижу. Скорости до М 0,8 отнюдь не малые, это и есть скорости ведения маневренного воздушного боя, больше только для киборгов в кабине. Ну и вообще для четвертого поколения навряд ли все атаки начинаются на запредельном сверхзвуке, каком-нибудь М 1,2, тут можно глянуть на выкладываемые МО незамазанные ИЛСы Су-35. На бОльших скоростях все равно ГДУ как еще одна сила в дополнение к рулям будет разворачивать ракету интенсивнее, делая возможным стрельбу без потери цели головкой при больших углах визирования, разумеется, все зависит и от общей способности ракеты выдерживать перегрузки.

Для Су-27 оптимальные скорости маневренного боя, где он имеет преимущество, где-то 0,4-0,6М

[tavarish palkovnik]

Recently I was doing some research about internal ballistic of motor of R-37 after digging out some interesting stuff related to most probably this motor

And it is resulted with this output so if you find it helpful and something to discuss about, it would be nice 

pk R-37 rus.pdf

[tavarish palkovnik]

Старя народная мудрость для боевого сокола:

«Если ничего умного не можешь сказать, то нужно промолчать»

 

[algrab]

Есть ли в планах создание инверсии и "обычного дымного следа" для ракет с пониженным следом вроде 120 и 9Х на высотах более 8 тыс. м? Как сейчас для самолетов. Там он есть и для этих ракет.

[Chizh]

20 минут назад, algrab сказал:

Есть ли в планах создание инверсии и "обычного дымного следа" для ракет с пониженным следом вроде 120 и 9Х на высотах более 8 тыс. м? 

Да, в хотелках записано. 

[BlackPixxel]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:48 PM, tavarish palkovnik said:

Recently I was doing some research about internal ballistic of motor of R-37 after digging out some interesting stuff related to most probably this motor

And it is resulted with this output so if you find it helpful and something to discuss about, it would be nice 

pk R-37 rus.pdf 1.12 MB · 28 downloads

Do you have a number for the total impulse? I would like to see how it compares to R-33 (in DCS: 37953 Kgs)

 

 

The recent change with R-27R/ER behaviour sure is nice, but it would be better if the bugs with the radar extrapolation mode were fixed that frequently cause an instant loss of lock under normal condition.

Now relocking after lock was broken due to the bug results in the missile being trashed. So Su-27 pilots get punished for the radar being buggy even more.

Edited April 15, 2023 by BlackPixxel

[tavarish palkovnik]

It could be 47800 kgs at sea level what is significantly different to what you are giving for R-33. Although these two motors are from two different design bureaus, older one is quite enough known, in geometrical form of fuel block and burning time, there shouldn’t be some drastic difference between those two.

Last summer one patent is published, and as one of authors signed is personally V.A.Sorokin, general director of MKB Iskra, and Iskra designed and manufacture this motor. Description and model sketch for me is nothing but this motor. Eventually it could be some redesign of motor of H-58 (originally also their) but even if it is this, still to me all these R-33, R-37 and H-58 motors (380mm) are more or less very familiar. Familiar in geometry and fuel mass.

 

 

[tavarish palkovnik]

R-33 motor, easily +/- 185kg of fuel

 

 

 

Side by side, H-58, R-33 and R-37 eventually , all in 380mm

 

[H7142]

On 4/15/2023 at 5:00 AM, BlackPixxel said:

Do you have a number for the total impulse? I would like to see how it compares to R-33 (in DCS: 37953 Kgs)

 

 

The recent change with R-27R/ER behaviour sure is nice, but it would be better if the bugs with the radar extrapolation mode were fixed that frequently cause an instant loss of lock under normal condition.

Now relocking after lock was broken due to the bug results in the missile being trashed. So Su-27 pilots get punished for the radar being buggy even more.

 

What is the change to the current behavior of the 27 I don't quite get what it means?

 

[BlackPixxel]

1 hour ago, H7142 said:

What is the change to the current behavior of the 27 I don't quite get what it means?

 

 

The change is that the Su-27 radar does not continue target illumination if you reacquire the target after STT lock was broken.

So if you fire an R-27R/ER, lose STT lock and reacquire the target, the missiles will be trashed and won't continue tracking.

 

Problem is that the Su-27 radar has a bug that causes instant loss of STT lock. In combination with that missile change it means that a missile that was fired before losing lock to the bug will be trashed, quickly relocking the target will not allow it to continue guiding.

Edited April 17, 2023 by BlackPixxel

[ShadowFrost]

11 hours ago, BlackPixxel said:

 

The change is that the Su-27 radar does not continue target illumination if you reacquire the target after STT lock was broken.

So if you fire an R-27R/ER, lose STT lock and reacquire the target, the missiles will be trashed and won't continue tracking.

 

Problem is that the Su-27 radar has a bug that causes instant loss of STT lock. In combination with that missile change it means that a missile that was fired before losing lock to the bug will be trashed, quickly relocking the target will not allow it to continue guiding.

 

What is the bug that causes instant STT lock loss? As it is currently implemented, if you break lock for any reason it will trash the missile, however, entering memory mode and recovering (not fully breaking lock) is fine. So you have around ~6 seconds of loss of lock (memory mode) in normal circumstances before the missile goes dead. 

Obviously, if the bug prevents entering memory and just straight up breaks lock, this significantly hurts the missile's performance. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by ShadowFrost

[BlackPixxel]

8 hours ago, ShadowFrost said:

Obviously, if the bug prevents entering memory and just straight up breaks lock, this significantly hurts the missile's performance. 

 

This is what is happening, extrapolation/memory mode sometimes does not enter, the lock instantly breaks:

 

And for some reason in any of the close combat modes there is no extrapolation at all. Lock immediately breaks there. Even though vertical scan HUD footage of real Mig-29 shows that even there is some extrapolation happening.

https://youtu.be/UaDBOiYq0r4?t=12

Note how after the shot he turns away, putting the target way below the gimbal limits of the IRST. But the lock does not instantly break, you can even see how the steering cue is moving as the IRST appears to scan the area at the gimbal edge in order to reacquire the target.

Edited April 18, 2023 by BlackPixxel

[H7142]

@ChizhНа сколько продвинута работа по модернизации Р-27? Я знаю, что планируется установить более точную систему автопилота и перейти на новую систему моделирования полета.

[Chizh]

3 часа назад, H7142 сказал:

@ChizhНа сколько продвинута работа по модернизации Р-27?

Перевод Р-27 на новую ФМ пока в ожидании.

3 часа назад, H7142 сказал:

Я знаю, что планируется установить более точную систему автопилота и перейти на новую систему моделирования полета.

Автопилот будет более реалистичным, но не более точным.

[Default774]

можем ли мы ожидать новых обновлений по AIM-120 или они завершены? Будет ли AIM-120 API применяться к другим ракетам?

[Chizh]

20 часов назад, Default774 сказал:

можем ли мы ожидать новых обновлений по AIM-120 или они завершены?

Основная часть работ завершена. Но вероятно будут еще настройки.

20 часов назад, Default774 сказал:

Будет ли AIM-120 API применяться к другим ракетам?

Да

[tavarish palkovnik]

Can someone help me please. I’m very sure that somewhere on this forum I saw diagram of drag coefficient of AIM-9 missile, and now I can’t find it. I remember it very well, and guess it is related to 9D. 
I remember it and also remember that reference area was not stated. 
So if someone can paste it once again and if in addition to determine ref. area, it would be appreciated.

I’ve just found some good stuff about what resistance AIM-9B and R-3S shapes produce and I would like to compare it with AIM-9D and R-13M
 

Edited May 22, 2023 by tavarish palkovnik

[Маэстро]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:50 PM, tavarish palkovnik said:

Can someone help me please. I’m very sure that somewhere on this forum I saw diagram of drag coefficient of AIM-9 missile, and now I can’t find it. I remember it very well, and guess it is related to 9D. 
I remember it and also remember that reference area was not stated. 
So if someone can paste it once again and if in addition to determine ref. area, it would be appreciated.

I’ve just found some good stuff about what resistance AIM-9B and R-3S shapes produce and I would like to compare it with AIM-9D and R-13M
 

 

Hi, don't sure there was such a diagram for 9D, but I have one for 9L/M
 

[tavarish palkovnik]

Thanks Маэстро

That's the one, all right it is for AIM-9L/M which I think doesn't differ too much from AIM-9D regarding drag coefficient, canards are a bit different but nose which makes a significant effect is more or less similar.

If you will need something about AIM-9B and R-3S shape, this could be helpful

 

 

 

It is from some old documents where they made several tests (mostly about effects of rollerons), maybe you have it already but in anycase. They put Sidewinder of early construction on Deacon buster and made shots of such double stage rockets

 

 

 

And as one of the results, drag coefficient is given as well

[F-2]

I know the Mig-29 is in limbo not confirmed but if you guys ever decide to develop it.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/mig-29-avionics.102/
 

https://studfiles.net/preview/5383872/
 

https://studfiles.net/nau/145/folder:11012/#5383849
 

 

you could probably develop a very high fidelity radar model based on that.

[Teknetinium]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:40 PM, tavarish palkovnik said:

Existing and flying 

I hope some don't think the nukes are fake as well, Sorry out of context.