MBT cannon smoke blinds you...

[MadTommy]

I've hardly played CA..so this might be a dumb question.

 

I took a quick spin in a MBT, upon firing you get completely blinded by the cannon smoke. And at the range i was firing i was unable to see where my shells were landing. i.e the explosion had finished before the smoke had cleared. I found it impossible to get my range.

 

How can you counteract this?

[diveplane]

I've hardly played CA..so this might be a dumb question.

 

I took a quick spin in a MBT, upon firing you get completely blinded by the cannon smoke. And at the range i was firing i was unable to see where my shells were landing. i.e the explosion had finished before the smoke had cleared. I found it impossible to get my range.

 

How can you counteract this?

 

armour sabot shells dont have ground impact textures animation yet, wont see where shells hit. next patch all this will be addressed.

 

if u select HE rounds youll see those have impact animations.

Edited September 27, 2012 by diveplane

[SmokeyTheLung]

There is a post by Mustang in the mods and apps forum/tracer color fix for .50cal thread (sorry, I'd link you but I'm on the mobile at work) that includes an altered file that enables tracers for the tanks...

 

...doesn't completely fix the problem but it helps a lot!

[diveplane]

There is a post by Mustang in the mods and apps forum/tracer color fix for .50cal thread (sorry, I'd link you but I'm on the mobile at work) that includes an altered file that enables tracers for the tanks...

 

...doesn't completely fix the problem but it helps a lot!

 

think he was talking about main battle 120mm gun like i said, sabot rounds.

 

not machine gun tracer.

[Mustang]

See here

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1505793&postcount=7

[MadTommy]

Yeah i was talking about the main cannon.

 

Cheers Mustang.. I'll check that out.

[SmokeyTheLung]

think he was talking about main battle 120mm gun like i said, sabot rounds.

 

not machine gun tracer.

 

I know, it enables tracers for the main guns (and artillery) just happens to be in a thread with .50cal in the title.

 

...won't fix the problem entirely but it helps

[Flanker15]

Cooked up a quick fix that makes the cannon smoke much more transparent.

Back up and replace

DCS World\Bazar\Effects\Explode\TankShot\High\TankShot.x.lua

Tried to do some fancy stuff but couldn't, the animation color lines seem to have no effect. Looks good with the tracer mod above.

TankShot.x.rar

[diveplane]

good fix we can see where the rounds go now.

[Dachs]

Well, IRL it's very likely you won't be able to see your tracer when firing APFSDS rounds, due to their high velocity. By the time the smoke and dust from firing settles the round will probably have impacted already, unless fired at very long distances. Atleast 2500-3000 meters or so. However, if you get a hit on a hard target, the flash from the impact can usually clearly be seen through all the smoke and dust.

[MadTommy]

Cooked up a quick fix that makes the cannon smoke much more transparent.

Back up and replace

DCS World\Bazar\Effects\Explode\TankShot\High\TankShot.x.lua

Tried to do some fancy stuff but couldn't, the animation color lines seem to have no effect. Looks good with the tracer mod above.

 

Excellent thanks.

 

Well, IRL it's very likely you won't be able to see your tracer when firing APFSDS rounds, due to their high velocity. By the time the smoke and dust from firing settles the round will probably have impacted already, unless fired at very long distances. Atleast 2500-3000 meters or so. However, if you get a hit on a hard target, the flash from the impact can usually clearly be seen through all the smoke and dust.

 

But tank gunners surely must be able to see something or have a system to allow them to correct their aim. Otherwise tanks would be next to useless. I speak with complete ignorance but governed by common sense. :)

[Isegrim]

IRL Tanks have Heat-sight. So you can see through the Dust.

Most Smoke is kicked out withe the Bore evacuator a short time after firing the gun (thats around 0.2 second delay) and it isnt by far such a big and dense Smoke Cloud like shown in CA.

 

 

 

Also most APFSDS rounds are Tracer ammunitions.

So you can see it bretty well.....but only from Fired point of view not from enemy side.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Isegrim

[Keshman]

If anyone is interested here slow shot from the tank.

 

[Dachs]

Excellent thanks.

 

 

 

But tank gunners surely must be able to see something or have a system to allow them to correct their aim. Otherwise tanks would be next to useless. I speak with complete ignorance but governed by common sense. :)

 

Corrections while shooting APFSDS can be done using standard proven values, like aiming low by a half MIL on the second shot for instance, and going up by one MIL on the third. Provided you have the correct distance this ought to produce a hit!

Again, you are very seldom able to actually observe the APFSDS shot due to dust and smoke. The only thing you can be sure to see is the flash of a hard target impact. Of course the dust part is very variable with regards to terrain,be it dry or wet conditions.

Using the thermal sight for observation of impact is, in my experience, not very usefull either, the tracer is not all that easy to spot and if the penetrator just hits dirt, there is not much of a heat signature at all and then there is nothing to base your correction on.

What we did have some succes with, was getting observations from a wingman who had a clear line of sight to the target and was able to see the tracer when it passed the target.

All this is for fast APFSDS rounds, slow HE rounds are much easier to work with, at least observation wise, hitting targets with them though is somewhat harder.

[MadTommy]

Corrections while shooting APFSDS can be done using standard proven values, like aiming low by a half MIL on the second shot for instance, and going up by one MIL on the third. Provided you have the correct distance this ought to produce a hit!

Again, you are very seldom able to actually observe the APFSDS shot due to dust and smoke. The only thing you can be sure to see is the flash of a hard target impact. Of course the dust part is very variable with regards to terrain,be it dry or wet conditions.

Using the thermal sight for observation of impact is, in my experience, not very usefull either, the tracer is not all that easy to spot and if the penetrator just hits dirt, there is not much of a heat signature at all and then there is nothing to base your correction on.

What we did have some succes with, was getting observations from a wingman who had a clear line of sight to the target and was able to see the tracer when it passed the target.

All this is for fast APFSDS rounds, slow HE rounds are much easier to work with, at least observation wise, hitting targets with them though is somewhat harder.

 

Thanks.

 

How do you get the correct distance IRL? And is that possible in CA?

[Isegrim]

@Dachs im not sure which Tank you are talking about ....I know Denmark is using Leopard2. Seems like you are talking about adjusting Gun and Gunners sight after a barrel change or something like this.

 

-Most main Battle Tanks use a laser to calculate Distance to Target.

-If the APFSDS round hits ground it jumps up in the Air (like if you throw a flat Stone that jumps about water) if your shoot been to short.(you can see this in CA on smaller arms using AP rounds)

-In my experience you can see clearly the tracer and a hit through gunners Heatsight (on Leopard 2 ) through dust and smoke. Also Commanders Periskope can be used for shoot opservation.

 

Spend 2 years as gunner on Leo 2 A5.

 

M1 should be similar or close.

 

Not sure about russian models but since T-72 they also use lasers for Distance calculation.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Isegrim

[Frogisis]

^Just now testing out the muzzle smoke mod I blew up a BMP-1 by skipping an AP round off the ground in front of it. Sweet. I've probably done that plenty of times already but couldn't see it before.

 

I like the thinner smoke, it makes things a lot easier, but I sure wish we had a fiery muzzle flash and smoke puff that just went by quickly, since it's so much fun to watch a ground battle from the air and see the tanks firing at each other. From the external view it now just looks so anemic...

I couldn't completely figure out the .lua file but it does look like there's a line where you pick what sprite you want for the blast - If ED doesn't get around to redoing it I'm sure one of us can figure out a more satisfying but still unobtrusive effect.

[Dachs]

@Dachs im not sure which Tank you are talking about ....I know Denmark is using Leopard2. Seems like you are talking about adjusting Gun and Gunners sight after a barrel change or something like this.

 

-In my experience you can see clearly the tracer and a hit through gunners Heatsight (on Leopard 2 ) through dust and smoke. Also Commanders Periskope can be used for shoot opservation.

 

Spend 2 years as gunner on Leo 2 A5.

 

Hi Isegrim, no nothing to do with barrelchange it is/was just standard (Danish) combatdrill.

I think now a days, if the first round dosen't hit then you lase the target again and fire one more time. If it still dosen't hit, you aim down a half MIL for the second shot and then up one MIL for the third shot. If there is still no hit, it's probably about high time to pop smoke and hit reverse :P

 

Anyway, I'm a dinosaur, I was gunner on the Leo1A5 for the better part of 7 years almost a decade ago, argh, I feel old! Maybe the thermalsight on the Leo2 you used is better, although I heard from the guys that it's pretty much the same as on the Leo1.

The flash from a hit could be clearly seen, both in thermal and daysight. But, I dont believe I observed tracer using the thermal sight other than with the slow HESH and longrange shots with APFSDS (3000 m or so) and of course MG. But, conditions vary, we usually had a lot of dust on the range!

Well, enough of that, I guess the tank modelling in DCS still has some way to go.. Sorry to the OP for the hijack

[Flanker15]

^Just now testing out the muzzle smoke mod I blew up a BMP-1 by skipping an AP round off the ground in front of it. Sweet. I've probably done that plenty of times already but couldn't see it before.

 

I like the thinner smoke, it makes things a lot easier, but I sure wish we had a fiery muzzle flash and smoke puff that just went by quickly, since it's so much fun to watch a ground battle from the air and see the tanks firing at each other. From the external view it now just looks so anemic...

I couldn't completely figure out the .lua file but it does look like there's a line where you pick what sprite you want for the blast - If ED doesn't get around to redoing it I'm sure one of us can figure out a more satisfying but still unobtrusive effect.

 

I was trying to do this but couldn't figure it out so I had to settle for just less smoke. I wanted a bright flash for the first few milliseconds so it looked more real and you could see tanks shooting at you.

[Flanker15]

New patch changed the effect so don't need the fix anymore.

[MadTommy]

New patch changed the effect so don't need the fix anymore.

 

Nice thanks for the heads up.

[Flanker15]

New little mod like the tracer mod before, but changes the shell to the new 3d red tracer that's easier to see from behind and has LODs.

Just put the files in the

bazar/world/shapes folder, back up old kinetic_type1 file if want.

Kinetic_type1.rar

[Keshman]

Flanker15

 

This gives a new tracer for two shells АР and HE ?

[Flanker15]

Flanker15

 

This gives a new tracer for two shells АР and HE ?

 

Just the AP.

 

Also just encase you haven't noticed: when the game auto updates it backs up the overwritten mod files into numbered folders in the main directory so no need to redownload a mod if it gets removed in an update.

[martin.hedin]

New little mod like the tracer mod before, but changes the shell to the new 3d red tracer that's easier to see from behind and has LODs.

Just put the files in the

bazar/world/shapes folder, back up old kinetic_type1 file if want.

 

This is great. I would like this tracer for 20mm and 30mm also, well actually for all projectiles except HE shells. How do I do this?